Anti Bullying

[abegedun]

Thanks for the shutting the fuck up harrison.

[ukaking]

Lets all chug on over to mamby pamby land now!! Sorry had to say it...

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your perspective is limited to the point of comedy dude. What you suggest might have worked well in 1956, before This became a litigious society, but in today's world, should a kid put another kid in the hospital, it is likely they will enter the criminal justice system and end up paying for that for a large portion of their life. Not only that, but you forget the fundamental fact that most kids who are bullied are bullied because they are smaller and weaker than the bully or bullies who are attacking them. The only chance a kid like that would have is a weapon, which, as noted above, will probably only get them incarcerated in the real world. I personally was the victim of bullying in grade school, and I ended up doing what you suggest, but I am a big guy, and was able to actually handle myself. I would hate to have been small, and less able to defend myself. ..and before you start blathering about how "if you just hit them hard and fast enough you will make them cry," the bullies i had to deal with were inner city child-thugs, who probably would have shot me had they been just a couple years older.

Violence only begets violence, which only begets grief and suffering for everyone involved. Civilization is one tool that mankind has developed to end senseless violence, and every step we can take to go further down that road is a step in the right direction.

Pacifism wins. Ask the followers of Ghandi, who were so recently a destitute 3rd world shithole, now on the verge of being the world's 3rd or 4th richest and most industrious power. Had any job offers lately?

I'm not saying that people should not defend themselves, but it is completely ludicrous for anyone to say that the powers that be in the relevant systems should not do everything in their power to stop violence - physical, mental, or emotional - from being visited on children by mean and/or older children, and you - and everyone else here doing so - should be fucking ashamed of yourselves. You are horrible people.

I think there's an assumption that violence is the only way to "deal with" bullies other than having teachers/school admins/etc enforce hardnosed, silly rules about it.

I also don't think violence always begets violence - there are retaliatory actions which are in measure, and there are some which are not in measure. Casey Heynes' retaliation was in measure. The Columbine Shooters' was not.

There's nothing wrong with defending yourself physically after violence has already been done to you - although it's not always the best course of action. Kids shouldn't be penalized if they actually responded appropriately, which I think Casey Heynes did. He didn't kick the living crap out of the kid, or kick him in the ribs when he was down, or jump on top of him and start beating him - he gave him one swift retaliation, and then walked off.

It is healthy for kids to get the idea early on that there are people who want to be mean for their own stupid pleasures or to satisfy themselves. You have to have the individual fortitude to physically fight back if you're physically attacked (within parameters of the rules), but also to develop the mental fortitude to deal with insults - and not necessarily physically. See RnF. If you can't deal with people treating you badly without going postal or crying to authorities because someone called you a poopie head, stay off the internet - you probably need psychological help.

However, it's ridiculous to say that school admins and authorities shouldn't be involved at certain levels of bullying.

There are lines - hacking into someone's myspace account and posting all kinds of demeaning crap, photo-shopping pictures and passing them around school, following someone after school, etc. If a kid has no means of resolving the situation, he does need those in charge of him to step up and be there.

Teaching kids to escalate verbal disputes or insults into physical ones would be entirely the wrong message - but when you're Casey Heynes, an overweight but peaceful kid who gets harassed by some scrawny kid who punches you in the face and won't leave you alone, you body slam that kid and show him that the instant you use violence against me, i'll respond accordingly. I won't go too far - but I won't take your crap forever.

If a kid simply isn't strong enough to retaliate - He has to find other ways of dealing with it, and if he's 70 pounds and his bully is 140 and severely athletic, he simply has no other option other than authorities. There's no shame in that - you have to protect yourself somehow, and any School admins who know this is happening and don't do something to stop it are absolutely negligent. They shouldn't do nothing because "They dealt with it when they were growing up."


Also, the Gandhi method only works if your opponent has a conscience. Yes, turn the other cheek - but eventually you run out of cheeks to turn.

As Bertrand Russell said: "It is doubtful that the method of Mahatma Gandhi would have succeeded except that he was appealing to the conscience of a Christianized people."

[Messianic]

Oh, and this tag: "zangief = owns"

Awesome. LOL

[Toehammer]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your perspective is limited to the point of comedy dude. What you suggest might have worked well in 1956, before This became a litigious society, but in today's world, should a kid put another kid in the hospital, it is likely they will enter the criminal justice system and end up paying for that for a large portion of their life. Not only that, but you forget the fundamental fact that most kids who are bullied are bullied because they are smaller and weaker than the bully or bullies who are attacking them. The only chance a kid like that would have is a weapon, which, as noted above, will probably only get them incarcerated in the real world. I personally was the victim of bullying in grade school, and I ended up doing what you suggest, but I am a big guy, and was able to actually handle myself. I would hate to have been small, and less able to defend myself. ..and before you start blathering about how "if you just hit them hard and fast enough you will make them cry," the bullies i had to deal with were inner city child-thugs, who probably would have shot me had they been just a couple years older.

Violence only begets violence, which only begets grief and suffering for everyone involved. Civilization is one tool that mankind has developed to end senseless violence, and every step we can take to go further down that road is a step in the right direction.

Pacifism wins. Ask the followers of Ghandi, who were so recently a destitute 3rd world shithole, now on the verge of being the world's 3rd or 4th richest and most industrious power. Had any job offers lately?

I'm not saying that people should not defend themselves, but it is completely ludicrous for anyone to say that the powers that be in the relevant systems should not do everything in their power to stop violence - physical, mental, or emotional - from being visited on children by mean and/or older children, and you - and everyone else here doing so - should be fucking ashamed of yourselves. You are horrible people.

It is funny, because I get the sense that you read only what you wanted to in my post. To say that pacifism wins is completely retarded. One reason Gandhi "won" is because he had strength in numbers. Similarly, if you are weaker, you need numbers sometimes to overcome single bullies. To summarize my post as "amerikka fukk yeah" is also retarded. Please try to argue actual points. How did pacifism work for Eastern Europe during their appeasement of Hitler? If people like you were in charge we would all be speaking German right now.

I clearly said in my post that adults need to step in when it gets "really ridiculous". But you must have just missed that. If you think that there should be zero tolerance for any sort of physicality (that is really what you are stabbing at) then you are extremely shortsighted. You really are.

I myself was bullied too, but it never got too bad because I had an older brother (4 year difference) who always beat the shit out of me and I learned how to stand up to bullies. I am telling you my opinion from experience. I WAS small, unlike you at one point and I could still handle myself because at a YOUNG age I understood that the only way to get through to some bullies is through lighting them up. What Casey did was perfect, that is the 10x harder I was talking about. One and done. Granted I grew from 5'4" to 6' between sophomore and junior year and am now about 6'2"... but I learned when I was small to defend myself.

Also, to answer your question, yes, just landed an NRC postdoc in physics been there about 6 months now . Why are you trying to attack the person and not the issues?

Yeah, some circumstances are tough to navigate with bullies, if there really is a possibility of a weapon involved. But one point I was trying to get forth, maybe implied too much, was that the EXTREME protecting of kids, from black eyes, skinned knees, etc. will make kids grow up to be weaker. You say you think people should defend themselves but then go into a Gandhi (that is how it is spelled by the way) rant on pacifism. You do release that Gandhi was not in favor of any sort of violent resistance. Within that philosophy you would let someone beat you until their hands hurt. Also, the "litigious" society is a problem. Gimme 3 million for my McDonald's coffee burn. Have you lived in other countries? Ever lived in Japan, France, Tunisia? I have. People (well maybe not France) laugh at the pansy litigious society we have become.

Aww dang, I can't deal with you anymore. You have some valid points (weapons for example), but your clarity is dwarfed by by your overpowering seething anger. Maybe your clarity should hit your anger back 10x harder? Oh no wait, according to you that would only make things worse. I like your style, but don't rage so much.

[Seaweedpimp]

Un ban harrison so we can all post our cocks and laugh while we beat his with our enormous cocks.

Edit: No homo

[casdegere]

I'm not going to get all into this "Gandhi" discussion as I believe it to be completely unrelated as are the remarks about World War II to assist in explaining grade school bullying. These things are completely unrelated and the reasons are many.

What is related is that what is being suggested is that today's kids do not always have the "tools" to deal with bullying. It is true that I believe children in general are being coddled WAY to much. I am a parent and I have gone to Parent/Teacher conferences where parents are defending their child's poor performance. Not stupid children, lazy, uninterested children. Children with a deep sense of entitlement. Those that get rewarded for doing nothing on a regular basis, including failure. Likewise there are also, uninterested teachers and faculty. Those that are approached by a child who claims to have been hit or knocked down and simply berate the child for "taddling" or starting trouble. I grew up in an inner city school and I was not a fighter. I was however...a runner. When I was faced with this kind of thing and I could run...I did. When I couldn't I either took the bullying and in one instance, I bull-rushed one of the bullies, knocking him down, stepped on him and made a quick get-a-way. Its very rarely 1 on 1 where leverage to bully is weakest.

Not once did I feel like taking a knife or a gun to these bullies afterward. Though such a thing today is being considered in the minds of our youths faced with such difficulties. It is here, this place inside a child's head where the problem is. No patience, no confidence, no communication skills. Apathy to others facing similar problems. A mental disconnect with their environment with a strong desire for the suffering to end and turning to another to end it for them. Or internalize it until they lash out in some overt, violent manner compounded by their anger that the issue isn't being handled for them.

Now however, there is also virtual bullying where the solution can be complex. Litigation or violence? Some people do not respond to threats of action. I should say...some people's parents. That's because the damaged child's parents call up their lawyer before they head over to speak to the parents where in most cases, threats or action are not required.

As a parent the first thing I would do is take my daughters computer and phone away. Give her access on the families computer, restricting access to facebook etc. and issue her a pay as you go phone for the time being. Contact the school and schedule a meeting and bring evidence. (Pictures, statements, whatever) And have a sit down. In most cases however, it takes two to tango though the highlighted cases on the news would have you believe otherwise. These things however, take time and effort, something my child is most definitely worth.

These are actions of responsible parents, not contacting the news, glorifying the incident, ignoring your child's troubles or committing violent acts against someone.

[Pico]

Originally Posted by Toehammer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you think that there should be zero tolerance for any sort of physicality (that is really what you are stabbing at) then you are extremely shortsighted. You really are.

Schools should never, ever tacitly condone violence in any situation.

And your experiences don't really matter because for every one of you there are a bunch of kids even physically weaker and less mentally incapable of standing up for themselves. Those are the kids bullies target. And if you think constant torment and harassment is somehow good for that child's development you are seriously insane.

[Pico]

Also, no one in this thread is making the world out to be some flowers and sunshine happy place. No one has even said that's a realistic goal that can be achieved if we only stopped bullying.

The world is a nasty place, but this is something we typically learn slowly as we enter adulthood, and we can therefore adapt accordingly. It's a lot harder though for a child to adapt if he's enduring constant bullying when he's 12 years old. If that fucks him up for the rest of his life and you claim that makes him a weak person, well I don't really know what to say to you. Maybe learn a little empathy?

Should we just forget about the plight of child soldiers because hey, the world's a terrible place! It's best those 8 year olds with AK-47s learn that while they're young!

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

I teach 1st graders Krav Maga so when they confront a bully they know to begin with a groin kick and eye gouge combo