Anti Bullying

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by apocalypsesmeep [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

bullying is pretty serious, regardless of the form it takes. I don't think it builds character at all. It caused me severe depression from about 2nd to 7th grade. I don't know how that is useful in any way.

It prepared you for life.

Life isn't easy.

Stop pretending to your kids as they grow up that everything is fucking candyland and sunshine, all the time.

[apocalypsesmeep]

You're right, struggling through mental illness for my entire life and being on disability after a break down was definitely worth all that.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by apocalypsesmeep [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right, struggling through mental illness for my entire life and being on disability after a break down was definitely worth all that.

Ever think maybe the problem was you and not the bullies?

Everyone is so quick to blame everyone for everything that you forgot the part where you were too weak to do anything about it, either mentally, or physically.

So now you blame bullies for you being mentally handicapped? Right.

[Lamierus]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ever think maybe the problem was you and not the bullies?

Everyone is so quick to blame everyone for everything that you forgot the part where you were too weak to do anything about it, either mentally, or physically.

So now you blame bullies for you being mentally handicapped? Right.

The bullies were only a catalyst for the chemical imbalances to take a better hold on him. He could not help that. Don't blame him for being disabled or feeling as if the bullies contributed. They did in fact contribute to make the onset sooner, rather than later. It would, however, have been possible to stave off the onset much longer without their interaction. There are actually a LOT of people living with mental disabilities that aren't fully aware of it, and it just takes some kind of nasty catalyst to create the onset and following breakdown. We all witness this happen almost every week with celebrities. They seem fine and all that, and suddenly break down after some major life change or extra media coverage on them due to something that happens in their life.

[Harrison]

You supported my point.

There was already a problem. Whether then, or later, it was going to happen.

Life is not easy. Stop blaming everything else and learn some personal accountability. That alone will go a long way in alleviating life's difficulty.

If everyone else is to blame for everything that goes wrong, you will never find a solution.

[KilyenaMage]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ever think maybe the problem was you and not the bullies?

Everyone is so quick to blame everyone for everything that you forgot the part where you were too weak to do anything about it, either mentally, or physically.

So now you blame bullies for you being mentally handicapped? Right.

I'd love to kick your fucking teeth in.

I'm guessing you're a loser RL or you wouldn't be trolling forums putting people down all day like you do.

[Toehammer]

Hmmm, in no way am I defending Harrison or advocating some of his over-the-top comments, but it sounds like he is getting grief for things he has said in the past more than what he has said in this thread. He and Yaegar are actually making some of the best points in the thread.

One problem with everyone here is they are talking about different forms of bullying. For guys, getting bullied by another guy is a pretty easy situation to handle; if someone hits you, hit them back 10x harder... that is THE best way to handle male/male bullying. You must become Casey "The Punisher Haynes".

Girl vs girl bullying is much more of the torment variety and for that I have no real perspective, but in general you also need to find a way to "hit" back 10x harder.

I have talked with Kaushi before many times and she was bullied by boys. That is completely different, and in my opinion, is the only real bullying that schools should have zero tolerance for.

However, the basic premise that Harrison and yaegar are advocating is that at some point, in life, at your job, in elementary school, you will be either physically (predominantly guy/guy) or emotionally (predominantly girl/girl) and you MUST learn to stand up for yourself. That's it. It may be hard, but there is always a way. Bullying becomes less severe as we grow older ONLY because the majority of adults learn how to deal with it or snuff it out themselves sometime as children. However, zero tolerance type policies will only create more kids who take longer to mature into confident and strong adults.

Getting rid of dodgeball is BAD... banning "picking teams" in gym is bad. Gym class, schoolyard scuffles, being teased/made fun of are part of growing up. The more we as adults try to stamp them out, as a society, the more physically, mentally, and emotionally weak we will become in the future.

The world can chew you up and spit you out... you gotta learn resilience at some point, and the younger the better. The whole "kids being kids" thing is funny too, because as yaegar said, kids are not stupid and we do them a disservice by pampering them. Kids also who stand up to bullies often become friends with them. Watch children and they are like a walking and breathing depiction of the wild. You must earn respect, and this whole "you should just respect people" like it is an innate right is something very bizarre. You should all go read Lord of the Flies again. I used to work with children in a sleepaway summer camp setting, and the main thing is that they all wanna hang out and have a good time, sometimes there are displays of dominance and feather ruffling, but in the end kids really DO want to like eachother, but drawing lines in the sand can be counterproductive. Kids are way smarter than we give them credit for, sometimes just watching what is happening, stepping in when it gets REALLY ridiculous is ok... but let the kids be kids.

-Ghwerig
TANK SHAMAN!

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Toehammer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AMERIKA!! FUKK YEAH!!

Your perspective is limited to the point of comedy dude. What you suggest might have worked well in 1956, before This became a litigious society, but in today's world, should a kid put another kid in the hospital, it is likely they will enter the criminal justice system and end up paying for that for a large portion of their life. Not only that, but you forget the fundamental fact that most kids who are bullied are bullied because they are smaller and weaker than the bully or bullies who are attacking them. The only chance a kid like that would have is a weapon, which, as noted above, will probably only get them incarcerated in the real world. I personally was the victim of bullying in grade school, and I ended up doing what you suggest, but I am a big guy, and was able to actually handle myself. I would hate to have been small, and less able to defend myself. ..and before you start blathering about how "if you just hit them hard and fast enough you will make them cry," the bullies i had to deal with were inner city child-thugs, who probably would have shot me had they been just a couple years older.

Violence only begets violence, which only begets grief and suffering for everyone involved. Civilization is one tool that mankind has developed to end senseless violence, and every step we can take to go further down that road is a step in the right direction.

Pacifism wins. Ask the followers of Ghandi, who were so recently a destitute 3rd world shithole, now on the verge of being the world's 3rd or 4th richest and most industrious power. Had any job offers lately?

I'm not saying that people should not defend themselves, but it is completely ludicrous for anyone to say that the powers that be in the relevant systems should not do everything in their power to stop violence - physical, mental, or emotional - from being visited on children by mean and/or older children, and you - and everyone else here doing so - should be fucking ashamed of yourselves. You are horrible people.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your perspective is limited to the point of comedy dude. What you suggest might have worked well in 1956, before This became a litigious society, but in today's world, should a kid put another kid in the hospital, it is likely they will enter the criminal justice system and end up paying for that for a large portion of their life. Not only that, but you forget the fundamental fact that most kids who are bullied are bullied because they are smaller and weaker than the bully or bullies who are attacking them. The only chance a kid like that would have is a weapon, which, as noted above, will probably only get them incarcerated in the real world. I personally was the victim of bullying in grade school, and I ended up doing what you suggest, but I am a big guy, and was able to actually handle myself. I would hate to have been small, and less able to defend myself. ..and before you start blathering about how "if you just hit them hard and fast enough you will make them cry," the bullies i had to deal with were inner city child-thugs, who probably would have shot me had they been just a couple years older.

Violence only begets violence, which only begets grief and suffering for everyone involved. Civilization is one tool that mankind has developed to end senseless violence, and every step we can take to go further down that road is a step in the right direction.

Pacifism wins. Ask the followers of Ghandi, who were so recently a destitute 3rd world shithole, now on the verge of being the world's 3rd or 4th richest and most industrious power. Had any job offers lately?

I'm not saying that people should not defend themselves, but it is completely ludicrous for anyone to say that the powers that be in the relevant systems should not do everything in their power to stop violence - physical, mental, or emotional - from being visited on children by mean and/or older children, and you - and everyone else here doing so - should be fucking ashamed of yourselves. You are horrible people.

I think there's an assumption that violence is the only way to "deal with" bullies other than having teachers/school admins/etc enforce hardnosed, silly rules about it.

I also don't think violence always begets violence - there are retaliatory actions which are in measure, and there are some which are not in measure. Casey Heynes' retaliation was in measure. The Columbine Shooters' was not.

There's nothing wrong with defending yourself physically after violence has already been done to you - although it's not always the best course of action. Kids shouldn't be penalized if they actually responded appropriately, which I think Casey Heynes did. He didn't kick the living crap out of the kid, or kick him in the ribs when he was down, or jump on top of him and start beating him - he gave him one swift retaliation, and then walked off.

It is healthy for kids to get the idea early on that there are people who want to be mean for their own stupid pleasures or to satisfy themselves. You have to have the individual fortitude to physically fight back if you're physically attacked (within parameters of the rules), but also to develop the mental fortitude to deal with insults - and not necessarily physically. See RnF. If you can't deal with people treating you badly without going postal or crying to authorities because someone called you a poopie head, stay off the internet - you probably need psychological help.

However, it's ridiculous to say that school admins and authorities shouldn't be involved at certain levels of bullying.

There are lines - hacking into someone's myspace account and posting all kinds of demeaning crap, photo-shopping pictures and passing them around school, following someone after school, etc. If a kid has no means of resolving the situation, he does need those in charge of him to step up and be there.

Teaching kids to escalate verbal disputes or insults into physical ones would be entirely the wrong message - but when you're Casey Heynes, an overweight but peaceful kid who gets harassed by some scrawny kid who punches you in the face and won't leave you alone, you body slam that kid and show him that the instant you use violence against me, i'll respond accordingly. I won't go too far - but I won't take your crap forever.

If a kid simply isn't strong enough to retaliate - He has to find other ways of dealing with it, and if he's 70 pounds and his bully is 140 and severely athletic, he simply has no other option other than authorities. There's no shame in that - you have to protect yourself somehow, and any School admins who know this is happening and don't do something to stop it are absolutely negligent. They shouldn't do nothing because "They dealt with it when they were growing up."


Also, the Gandhi method only works if your opponent has a conscience. Yes, turn the other cheek - but eventually you run out of cheeks to turn.

As Bertrand Russell said: "It is doubtful that the method of Mahatma Gandhi would have succeeded except that he was appealing to the conscience of a Christianized people."

[Toehammer]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your perspective is limited to the point of comedy dude. What you suggest might have worked well in 1956, before This became a litigious society, but in today's world, should a kid put another kid in the hospital, it is likely they will enter the criminal justice system and end up paying for that for a large portion of their life. Not only that, but you forget the fundamental fact that most kids who are bullied are bullied because they are smaller and weaker than the bully or bullies who are attacking them. The only chance a kid like that would have is a weapon, which, as noted above, will probably only get them incarcerated in the real world. I personally was the victim of bullying in grade school, and I ended up doing what you suggest, but I am a big guy, and was able to actually handle myself. I would hate to have been small, and less able to defend myself. ..and before you start blathering about how "if you just hit them hard and fast enough you will make them cry," the bullies i had to deal with were inner city child-thugs, who probably would have shot me had they been just a couple years older.

Violence only begets violence, which only begets grief and suffering for everyone involved. Civilization is one tool that mankind has developed to end senseless violence, and every step we can take to go further down that road is a step in the right direction.

Pacifism wins. Ask the followers of Ghandi, who were so recently a destitute 3rd world shithole, now on the verge of being the world's 3rd or 4th richest and most industrious power. Had any job offers lately?

I'm not saying that people should not defend themselves, but it is completely ludicrous for anyone to say that the powers that be in the relevant systems should not do everything in their power to stop violence - physical, mental, or emotional - from being visited on children by mean and/or older children, and you - and everyone else here doing so - should be fucking ashamed of yourselves. You are horrible people.

It is funny, because I get the sense that you read only what you wanted to in my post. To say that pacifism wins is completely retarded. One reason Gandhi "won" is because he had strength in numbers. Similarly, if you are weaker, you need numbers sometimes to overcome single bullies. To summarize my post as "amerikka fukk yeah" is also retarded. Please try to argue actual points. How did pacifism work for Eastern Europe during their appeasement of Hitler? If people like you were in charge we would all be speaking German right now.

I clearly said in my post that adults need to step in when it gets "really ridiculous". But you must have just missed that. If you think that there should be zero tolerance for any sort of physicality (that is really what you are stabbing at) then you are extremely shortsighted. You really are.

I myself was bullied too, but it never got too bad because I had an older brother (4 year difference) who always beat the shit out of me and I learned how to stand up to bullies. I am telling you my opinion from experience. I WAS small, unlike you at one point and I could still handle myself because at a YOUNG age I understood that the only way to get through to some bullies is through lighting them up. What Casey did was perfect, that is the 10x harder I was talking about. One and done. Granted I grew from 5'4" to 6' between sophomore and junior year and am now about 6'2"... but I learned when I was small to defend myself.

Also, to answer your question, yes, just landed an NRC postdoc in physics been there about 6 months now . Why are you trying to attack the person and not the issues?

Yeah, some circumstances are tough to navigate with bullies, if there really is a possibility of a weapon involved. But one point I was trying to get forth, maybe implied too much, was that the EXTREME protecting of kids, from black eyes, skinned knees, etc. will make kids grow up to be weaker. You say you think people should defend themselves but then go into a Gandhi (that is how it is spelled by the way) rant on pacifism. You do release that Gandhi was not in favor of any sort of violent resistance. Within that philosophy you would let someone beat you until their hands hurt. Also, the "litigious" society is a problem. Gimme 3 million for my McDonald's coffee burn. Have you lived in other countries? Ever lived in Japan, France, Tunisia? I have. People (well maybe not France) laugh at the pansy litigious society we have become.

Aww dang, I can't deal with you anymore. You have some valid points (weapons for example), but your clarity is dwarfed by by your overpowering seething anger. Maybe your clarity should hit your anger back 10x harder? Oh no wait, according to you that would only make things worse. I like your style, but don't rage so much.