The legality of vigilantism is fundamentally flawed

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, I get where you are coming from Day and where you want to go with it, but my thoughts on this isn't a product of some Freudian indoctrination. I am very much a proponent of individual responsibility, but it is painfully evident (and has become more so as I have aged) that some people are simply more destructive than others even as infants. I don't see how you can attribute all of human behavior to environment most especially when you see different results given the same or similar circumstances :/

How do you account for different outcomes given the same or similar circumstances?

Because like I mentioned, everybody is born bad. One baby is just as screwed up as the next. Thats closer to Jung, but taking the bad people of Frued that were just born that way, applying it to everyone. Still Jung, but just at the lowest point I guess.

So then yeah, upbringing makes 100% the final product. Not 50%, or some starting at 10% while others 80%, but everyone starting at -100% [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If we are diligent, maybe we can make it to 0. But the odds of that is maybe 1 in 15 billion.

So yeah, Frued. If you can say one is born good and another not so good or bad, well thats just what it comes from [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ...in the West.

[Jarnauga]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jarn suggested some of us were closer to Sharia shortly after my post, so that is how it ties in ^^ As for feeling ashamed of crime, they very much should feel ashamed of wrongdoing and I find it amusing for you to suggest otherwise ^^ If they do not there is something wrong with them. We have enough people as it is and don't need to waste resources correcting deficient ones.

My point was that saying "let's kill all criminals so they don't do it again" is not that different than saying "let's cut his and, he won't steal again"

or saying that women and men together are the reason for rapes. i can find lots of muslim assholes that agree with that, trust me.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because like I mentioned, everybody is born bad. One baby is just as screwed up as the next. Thats closer to Jung, but taking the bad people of Frued that were just born that way, applying it to everyone. Still Jung, but just at the lowest point I guess.

So then yeah, upbringing makes 100% the final product. Not 50%, or some starting at 10% while others 80%, but everyone starting at -100% [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If we are diligent, maybe we can make it to 0. But the odds of that is maybe 1 in 15 billion.

So yeah, Frued. If you can say one is born good and another not so good or bad, well thats just what it comes from [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ...in the West.

So you believe that all people with shitty upbringing will always be shitty adults and become criminals?

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point was that saying "let's kill all criminals so they don't do it again" is not that different than saying "let's cut his and, he won't steal again"

or saying that women and men together are the reason for rapes. i can find lots of muslim assholes that agree with that, trust me.

I understood what you were saying and that is why I made the case for the moral superiority of capital punishment ^^

[Jarnauga]

there's no moral superiority, lol.

I honestly wouldn't mind death penalty in a perfect system where we would have mind reading psychers or something. (i guess the reasons why you'd deserve death are open to debate too, but let's not go there)

The fact is the judicial system, be it in the US or in Europe or anywhere else is not perfect. There's mistakes being made. And that's fine, no system is perfect. But at least with lifelong emprisonment, you can fix the mistake and free the guy. Not with death penaly.

I'd add that death penalty cost actually more than lifelong jail (can't remember who said that, but you're wrong).

In 1981, most of the french public opinion was for the death penalty. And still, presidential candidate Miterrand said he would abolish it if he was elected. That was some kind of balls that he had. We definitely left barbary behind us when we did that.

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”

[Angushjalmur]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there's no moral superiority, lol.

I honestly wouldn't mind death penalty in a perfect system where we would have mind reading psychers or something. (i guess the reasons why you'd deserve death are open to debate too, but let's not go there)

The fact is the judicial system, be it in the US or in Europe or anywhere else is not perfect. There's mistakes being made. And that's fine, no system is perfect. But at least with lifelong emprisonment, you can fix the mistake and free the guy. Not with death penaly.

I'd add that death penalty cost actually more than lifelong jail (can't remember who said that, but you're wrong).

In 1981, most of the french public opinion was for the death penalty. And still, presidential candidate Miterrand said he would abolish it if he was elected. That was some kind of balls that he had. We definitely left barbary behind us when we did that.

Spending 15 years in prison effectively ends your life. That's a huge gap in what takes constant commitment to develop. That would have debilitating consequences psychologically as well.

The more humane (and financially sound) solution would be to just execute death row inmates/ lifer inmates. If you end up executing an innocent person here or there, who gives a shit? Imagine having over 7 billion dollars and misplacing a dollar.

[entruil]

Originally Posted by entruil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if any of you can figure out what i just typed i would appreciate knowing what it means... pretty sure it might mean something... might be something about the paint chips i just consumed...

well ent, you know pretty damn well that you dont make any sense... maybe you should leave the paint chips alone.

Here, read this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Feinberg

..................Bernie got me on tilt... i was alluding to and looking for that before but i just found it...


*about the only thing any of this has in common is paint chips...

 

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nothing to see here just coolin' myself off...

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jarn suggested some of us were closer to Sharia shortly after my post, so that is how it ties in ^^ As for feeling ashamed of crime, they very much should feel ashamed of wrongdoing and I find it amusing for you to suggest otherwise ^^ If they do not there is something wrong with them. We have enough people as it is and don't need to waste resources correcting deficient ones.

Why should they feel ashamed? What they do they're reaponsible for which has no bearing on feeling or not feeling shame.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why should they feel ashamed? What they do they're reaponsible for which has no bearing on feeling or not feeling shame.

Shame is an integral component of functional society. Without it we might all behave indiscriminately in each our own self interest with no regard for our fellow humans. It is a mechanism of encouraging compliance with societal standards. It is a natural response to evaluation of oneself relative to standards and is a motivator for improvement. It is one of the bonds by which society is forged. It's absence suggests apathy.

[Jarnauga]

Originally Posted by Angushjalmur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The more humane (and financially sound) solution would be to just execute death row inmates/ lifer inmates. If you end up executing an innocent person here or there, who gives a shit?

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