Which class when played with skill affects your group the most?

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by astuce999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a 60 bard, 60 chanter, and 60 necro.

I understand the arguments about the chanter and necro, and it is true that they can have a very noticeable impact. Depending on the dungeon, they trade the silver medal.

But the bard takes the gold. It's not even close. If the impact level was on a scale, then necro's and chanter would be rated from 1 to 10. But the bard would be from 1 to 100.

Bard is not better than Enchanter. Their haste is worse, their slow is worse, their charm is worse. It's simple numbers. Enchanter creates more damage and prevents more damage. Bard will be more difficult to play at maximum efficiency simply because of needing to spam different songs non-stop in order to achieve that efficiency, but it doesn't make them better.

[Lojik]

I'll work backwards. Classes with least impact, regardless of skill:
Magician
Wizard
Rogue
Warrior
Druid
Ranger
Necro
Shaman
Paladin
SK
Cleric

These are probably not in the right order, and can move up and down depending on the situation: Rogue is good at sneak pulling/opening doors, but wizard can cc/root park/stun etc. Maybe shaman should be higher, but i think the shm skill cap shows in soloing more than grouping. That leaves:

Monk
Enchanter
Bard

If you're talking about just a standard 6 man grind out exp group, bard has the highest skill cap to affect change to the group. However, small (2-3) exp group I'd lean toward enchanter. You'll also get situations where CC is very tough (resistant mobs, immune to stun/mez,) and being able to single pull well is paramount to your success, and there's really no substitute for a good monk puller. It's easy to see when a great bard is doing a zillion things to help the group, but it's not as easy to see the effects a great monk has on making pulls look easy.

[HeyNomad]

Originally Posted by JayDee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

playing bad is more fun

No argument here.

[trite]

bard and enchanter two most skillful group classes , a skillful group bard is a freaking unicorn, they can run in a circle with 10 mobs under their control while your group picks them off one at a time in the upper 50s... or they can sit there afk playing mana song and occasionally meleeing like a PoS

[skarlorn]

so, where is the good guide for Bards in groups?

We've all seen that beautiful unicorn. We've all loved them as they flit away like the shiny, elusive little elves that they are.

Unicorns grow horns through 10,000 hrs time spent grinding. it would be easier if there was a good guide.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bard is not better than Enchanter. Their haste is worse, their slow is worse, their charm is worse. It's simple numbers. Enchanter creates more damage and prevents more damage. Bard will be more difficult to play at maximum efficiency simply because of needing to spam different songs non-stop in order to achieve that efficiency, but it doesn't make them better.

If a Bard is played as an ersatz enchanter, sure it's inferior to the real thing. Bard is not same as enchanter. Enchanter is unparalleled as a dungeon soloer, no question. But Bard is unparalleled as a group power multiplier. Enchanter perhaps comes closest, but the rare well-played Bard is simply an amazing addition to any competent group.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bard is not better than Enchanter. Their haste is worse, their slow is worse, their charm is worse. It's simple numbers. Enchanter creates more damage and prevents more damage. Bard will be more difficult to play at maximum efficiency simply because of needing to spam different songs non-stop in order to achieve that efficiency, but it doesn't make them better.

Exactly. I don't understand where this bard mystique comes from. Even when you omit charmed pet destruction, Enchanters get some great tools. 4-slot dispel is amazing. 70% slow prevents more than twice as much melee damage as a bard - a huge difference. 43MR debuff is pretty comparable to 18MR debuff and 30MR debuff proc. Rapture is a great panic button and when combined with memblur allows Enchanters to split things that Bard Lull won't land on. Dictate is great when two sebilite juggernauts are pounding your party. Enchanter haste and mana regen are always on, unlike Bard songs that fade when the bard is trying to single target CC multiple or resisty mobs - exactly when you need them most.

So while I give the nod to the bard, it's pretty close. Then you add a free 1.5 rogues worth of damage from the charmed pet, and I don't understand how this is even an argument.

[Zuranthium]

Yes, totally Raev. I was about to add in how Bards also can't maintain all of their buffs while doing CC on multiple targets, thanks for mentioning it.

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bard is unparalleled as a group power multiplier.

Nope.

The max a Bard can do is Chorus of Replenishment (equal to Enchanter mana regen), 45% haste, 31% Slow, Charm (that breaks every 18 seconds, so it does less DPS), and Mez 1 target. If they don't need to Mez then they can add in an additional 10% of haste, which is still inferior in total to what an Enchanter gives, or they can instead add a little bit of extra mana regen.

Enchanter is doing 64% Haste, 50% Slow (and can go higher if needed), Charm that breaks less often and can work on higher level targets if needed, and can Mez/Root multiple targets while doing this.

[Detoxx]

You know what they say...the best CC is a good monk!

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The max a Bard can do is Chorus of Replenishment (equal to Enchanter mana regen), 45% haste, 31% Slow, Charm (that breaks every 18 seconds, so it does less DPS), and Mez 1 target. If they don't need to Mez then they can add in an additional 10% of haste, which is still inferior in total to what an Enchanter gives, or they can instead add a little bit of extra mana regen.

Enchanter is doing 64% Haste, 50% Slow (and can go higher if needed), Charm that breaks less often and can work on higher level targets if needed, and can Mez/Root multiple targets while doing this.

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