So no chardok & no bard kiting... discuss

[khysanth]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic.

Then why not change things like SoulFire, item recharges, slow hammers, rooted raid mobs etc. to emulate a sense of how EverQuest worked in classic?

[thufir]

Originally Posted by khysanth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then why not change things like SoulFire, item recharges, slow hammers, rooted raid mobs etc. to emulate a sense of how EverQuest worked in classic?

"why not make 100 more changes because you made 1 change?"

[wwoneo]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One thing does not necessarily mean the other. The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic. I'm not referring to simply December 3, 2001 mechanics (Luclin release 12/4/01), but a sense of how it generally functioned throughout classic times. I was in AE groups in Sebilis. I was part of fearplane breaks using AEs, but it was nothing like what was being done on p99. fearplane for example.. the majority of the zone was not rounded up and AEed down like it was here. It was done in small bursts (especially amygdalans). On erollisi marr, we called those the conga lines. There were certainly technological limitations of aggroing a certain amount of npcs around clients. I'm not referring to merely clientside (what you see) limitations either; the soe server->client was also a factor. We chose 25 targets as a preliminary number to address the situation. As stated in the patch notes, "We will continue to evaluate this to determine if any further changes are needed."

I will take personal responsibility and flames for this change if necessary, because what existed was in no way reminiscent of classic behavior. It will continue to be evaluated.

First, I would like to say that I appreciate the fact you responded to my post. It demonstrates that you genuinely care about the community.

However, there are many inconsistencies in the game that have been around for years that do not parallel your statements such as puppet string recharging, guilds massing soulfires to trivialize content, etc... in addition, you say that you were in Seb AE groups. I was as well and I can confirm that there were 100+ (definitely more than 25+) mob pulls in Seb. The only difference was that there were no AE groups selling proxy spots, or at least not on my server.

Also, you have indirectly nerfed the AEing of more trivial content. I guarantee on live there were many players that would go to zones such as Crushbone and Blackburrow in order to collect belts, faction and other such things.

There are many other aspects of this AE nerf that have not even been realized that have moved away from the Classic feel of Everquest.

I feel this is a step in the wrong direction for project 1999, but I still thank you for your commitment and dedication to the game.

[wwoneo]

Originally Posted by thufir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"why not make 100 more changes because you made 1 change?"

I think you should brush up on your deductive reasoning if you don't understand the inconsistencies with statements to which you are referring.

There were more problems that were already in the game prior to Chardok AE that were never resolved. The fact that the staff decided to make this change means they are willing to hand pick the ones that they don't personally like due to the cries of the majority. That sounds a lot like Gamebreak servers to me.

Not enough mobs? Let's add instances.
Expansions not coming out fast enough? Let's add voting.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by wwoneo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you should brush up on your deductive reasoning if you don't understand the inconsistencies with statements to which you are referring.

There were more problems that were already in the game prior to Chardok AE that were never resolved. The fact that the staff decided to make this change means they are willing to hand pick the ones that they don't personally like due to the cries of the majority. That sounds a lot like Gamebreak servers to me.

Not enough mobs? Let's add instances.
Expansions not coming out fast enough? Let's add voting.

yeah, slippery slope arguments have never resonated with me

appeals to shit like "deductive reasoning" and "logic" are fantastic, used to believe very strongly in it, then read a bunch of books about persuasion which sadly discount the value of such things when convincing people of things (including the opinions you hold, as a human you are not an exception to these basic human mechanics)

they made 1 change. wait for the other ones, if there are any, before you cry about things that happen in the future. and if you think this one is bad, we'll just have to agree to disagree about it, and that's that.

[wwoneo]

Originally Posted by thufir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah, slippery slope arguments have never resonated with me

appeals to shit like "deductive reasoning" and "logic" are fantastic, used to believe very strongly in it, then read a bunch of books about persuasion which sadly discount the value of such things when convincing people of things (including the opinions you hold, as a human you are not an exception to these basic human mechanics)

they made 1 change. wait for the other ones, if there are any, before you cry about things that happen in the future. and if you think this one is bad, we'll just have to agree to disagree about it, and that's that.

I don't even think you bother to try and read or understand an entire post before you respond. So, I won't bother engaging any further.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One thing does not necessarily mean the other. The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic. I'm not referring to simply December 3, 2001 mechanics (Luclin release 12/4/01), but a sense of how it generally functioned throughout classic times. I was in AE groups in Sebilis. I was part of fearplane breaks using AEs, but it was nothing like what was being done on p99. fearplane for example.. the majority of the zone was not rounded up and AEed down like it was here. It was done in small bursts (especially amygdalans). On erollisi marr, we called those the conga lines. There were certainly technological limitations of aggroing a certain amount of npcs around clients. I'm not referring to merely clientside (what you see) limitations either; the soe server->client was also a factor. We chose 25 targets as a preliminary number to address the situation. As stated in the patch notes, "We will continue to evaluate this to determine if any further changes are needed."

I will take personal responsibility and flames for this change if necessary, because what existed was in no way reminiscent of classic behavior. It will continue to be evaluated.

It's a much needed and fantastic change. Thanks Nilbog.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by wwoneo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't even think you bother to try and read or understand an entire post before you respond. So, I won't bother engaging any further.

please don't. you're a guy who freaked out and told nilbog he has failed his quest because he nerfed aoe mechanics. you're worried that this use of value judgments will mean that many other things that are "classic" will now become not-classic. and when confronted on it you claim that people aren't reading your shit.

people who type shit like "you just aren't bothering to read me" are the ones making the communication errors, not the ones reading their shit. your argument is easily encapsulated in a short paragraph. it isn't difficult to understand, and it's a little something that you have to resort to "you don't understand!!1!" to address the counters.

[wwoneo]

Originally Posted by thufir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah, slippery slope arguments have never resonated with me

appeals to shit like "deductive reasoning" and "logic" are fantastic, used to believe very strongly in it, then read a bunch of books about persuasion which sadly discount the value of such things when convincing people of things (including the opinions you hold, as a human you are not an exception to these basic human mechanics)

they made 1 change. wait for the other ones, if there are any, before you cry about things that happen in the future. and if you think this one is bad, we'll just have to agree to disagree about it, and that's that.

Also, this isn't the first time the staff has made changes to the server that weren't classic with the intention of trying to make things better.

[wwoneo]

Originally Posted by thufir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

please don't. you're a guy who freaked out and told nilbog he has failed his quest because he nerfed aoe mechanics. you're worried that this use of value judgments will mean that many other things that are "classic" will now become not-classic. and when confronted on it you claim that people aren't reading your shit.

people who type shit like "you just aren't bothering to read me" are the ones making the communication errors, not the ones reading their shit. your argument is easily encapsulated in a short paragraph. it isn't difficult to understand, and it's a little something that you have to resort to "you don't understand!!1!" to address the counters.

Okay fair enough you little shit. I'll break it down for you since you need to be educated.

First off, it isn't only about future changes. It is also about the staff hand picking changes they want to incorporate because whiny brats like you don't like the way things are.

I don't like the idea of the server changing in any manner simply to appease the majority. It ruins the integrity of the project. If I wanted a server like that I would just go play on Daybreak servers.

Also, if you're just going to dismiss the slippery slope argument, then what's the fucking point of ever logically discussing anything ever?

FYI this isn't the first time that the staff has implemented changes in the game away from classic mechanics in attempts to make the server better.