Curious why is paladin's the least played class?

[Shift]

thanks all to whom responded and left some opinions and knowledge on the table.

I definitely aware of paladins are the best tank for grouping, but

what about raids I don't see many paladins tanking raid bosses or end game content it's always warriors ;(

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Shift [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what about raids I don't see many paladins tanking raid bosses or end game content it's always warriors ;(

This is because Paladins simply don't have the HP/AC that warriors have, nor the discipline abilities warriors get. The raid bosses at end game hit way too hard for a paladin.

My guild recently had the best geared paladin on the server (atleast I think?) attempt to tank Vulak'aerr in ToV. He literally couldn't survive more than one or two rounds of melee.

[Shift]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is because Paladins simply don't have the HP/AC that warriors have, nor the discipline abilities warriors get. The raid bosses at end game hit way too hard for a paladin.

My guild recently had the best geared paladin on the server (atleast I think?) attempt to tank Vulak'aerr in ToV. He literally couldn't survive more than one or two rounds of melee.

Oh man that's sucks ;( so it's pretty much my paladin is a good off tank for raids. They are good to group with maybe i need to rethink on my main character then?

so it narrows it down to my warrior armorsmith or my monk kheen.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Shift [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh man that's sucks ;( so it's pretty much my paladin is a good off tank for raids. They are good to group with maybe i need to rethink on my main character then?

Paladins can and do main tank lower-end raids perfectly fine. This includes the clears of Fear, Hate, most of Growth, most of Sky, Kael arena, and all the other things lower-end guilds tend to do. It's at the middle tier where the hybrids start to run into problems: hybrids are so-so for Halls of Testing trash, and aren't going to be used for progression Derakor the Vindicator kills or things like that. Moving on, hybrids have little place or purpose at the high end. It wouldn't hurt to level your Monk or Warrior so you have them if you eventually need them, but for where your guild is today your Paladin should serve well.

I have two 50+ characters on P1999, one of which is 60. That's my namesake Paladin (now 54) and my Shadow Knight (60). Both characters satisfactorily perform the jobs I ask of them, and I'm not inclined to make anything else. I do not consider either of them "useless," however as a player I have zero interest in the high-end portion of the game. Rather, I happen to most enjoy the parts of the game where hybrids fare well.

In response to the person who compared Paladin popularity to that of Shadow Knights: Again, the SK is itself a rather unpopular class. Indeed, the populations of all three hybrid types (Paladin, Ranger, Shadow Knight) combined sometimes falls short of that of some of the individual most-played classes..

Danth

[Danth]

As an additional note, Paladins specifically do encounter a few unique problems during the Velious era, partly explaining their relative lack of popularity even versus other hybrids as well as why I switched classes some years back. Paladins pull with the Lull spell line, and as tanks much of their utility stems from their root spells (Enstill, mainly) and stun spells. Problem is, at very high levels in Velious none of those spells work very well (due to high resist rates) or at all (many Giants and all level 55+ creatures are outright stun immune). Paladins, while capable of acting as tanks for such content, are more suited to lower-level stuff than those sorts of areas. On top of that there's not much undead in Velious either, largely depriving Paladins of their modest utility in that area. There are quite a few areas in Velious where Paladins do well, but as a whole the expansion sort of plays away from the class's strengths.

Danth

[Raev]

Paladins don't get Defensive Discipline, which cuts the damage interval of a NPC in half. This reduces not only the raw amount of damage but also its variance, making it perfect for complete heal chains that must be timed to the worst case.

Because I am a massive nerd, I wrote a little tank simulator that picks the longest CH chain timing that gives a <1% chance of dying. Using parsed values for Derakor's max hit rate, attacks per round, etc, it recommends a 7s chain while Defensive and a 3s chain in Paladin mode. This means that a warrior requires less than half as many clerics! Add in the ability to pick a large race that caps stamina easily, the warrior class bonuses for HP and defensive skills, and the increased HP/AC on HOT armor and this might stretch to one third as many clerics.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is because Paladins simply don't have the HP/AC that warriors have, nor the discipline abilities warriors get. The raid bosses at end game hit way too hard for a paladin.

My guild recently had the best geared paladin on the server (atleast I think?) attempt to tank Vulak'aerr in ToV. He literally couldn't survive more than one or two rounds of melee.

I don't think there is any Paly as geared as I am on the blue server (I think Pint was close for a while, not sure if he still plays that toon), and I would most likely eat it really quick from Vulak.

My two cents:
(Disclaimer: I think Palies are cool, both in the gameplay sense and lore so I have some bias.

I've been playing a Paly for a while leveled it up pre-velious. Put in enough work and been lucky enough to a point where if I have best buffs and the random defense skill gods smile on me I can have 5900+ hpts,1540ish AC, and 3200 mana . The AC is actually higher than the high majority of warriors on this server.)

Honestly I could write a book about this subject because there is enough info and anecdotes but I will try (and fail to be concise)

Outside of raids:
Paladins are phenomenal group tanks because they have awesome utility. The provide great snap agro and cc that minimizes damage to non-tanks. Additionally they can heal, rez, lull pull, DA, stun like mad, etc.. They can't FD pull, but you are never going to have a tank that is going to be able to heal others in danger in a clutch situation.

In soloing situations they aren't great unless you have awesome gear. In duoing situations with certain classes they are pretty effective (enchanter/sham/bard) but also still suffer from poor dps.

What I do at raids:
Tanking: Paladins lack the defensive disc that warriors have so they generally are not main tank for serious end game unless shit goes wrong. I've tanked some NToV dragons and a lot of raid trash from Sleeepers Tomb to NToV but could never tank Tunare or AoW. In some situations I rampage tank but usually preferable to have a warrior handle it. Mobs on this server hit hard consistently so a hybrid tank is usually not viable for the hardest hitting mobs. I do tank a lot though because of content like minis, trash, and the random shit that happens. I also save a lot of asses when pets break because I snap agro and heal.

Healing: I actually do this a lot during raids. I obviously don't have cheal or torpor and that sets me behind Clerics and Shamans but Paladin healing can be on par (or above or below) with Druid healing because I have a HoT that is very mana efficient. Druids tend to have higher mana pools and sit more though. I also have a group heal (which is a lot of agro but can be a benefit when used effectively)

In actual raid situations clerics are just healing main tanks so I might be solo/helping to keep dps up. Or save the day with an LH.

Buffing: I have one buff that no other class casts so I cast a lot. It's not huge but it helps and if no Palies are around you are SoL. I actually checked once and I casted it about 2000 times in a month. I also have other less effective versions of clerics buffs which I do get asked to cast to save some cleric mana (I can add 975 hpts in buffs, making me the highest hpt self buffed player [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. I also help out with cures sometimes, though Shamans are generally better for that. (I have a clicky shield too ;P). I guess doing emergency and battle rezzes falls under here? Also I can cast single MR.

DPS: Paladin dps sucks, pretty freaking bad. I guess mine is a little better than total suck because I have a primal and high end weapons but it still sucks when I am comparing it to high end geared rogues/monks/warriors going for dps. But hey, I still do dps some other classes can't do shit and become near useless in an additive perspective.

The real upshot/why Paladins are awesome: I do all this shit all the time! The classic saying is Palies are good at some things not the best at anything but that is only a half truth because sometimes being the best at somethings means being able to do two things where some other classes can only do one thing really well. On a typical raid it's not unusual for me to buff 20-30 people, do damage to the mob while I heal some rogues to keep them dpsing, LH someone to keep them from eating it in low hpt agro, patch the last tank when defensive goes down, pickup an add or loose mob. So basically I get to do a little of a lot and juggle it.

Also I benefit from almost every stat in some way or another so most upgrades are gains in multiple facets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


TL;DR Paladins aren't popular because most people think like min/maxers. The class has so much utility though that it's always nice to have around and in certain situations is awesome.