Best Server Community Sin--Wait, Nevermind

[YendorLootmonkey]

I've lost camps due to death before. I'm a ranger, after all. And just like skipdog said above... yes, I'd be ticked. I was ticked that I spent all day at the dhampyre camp in Mistmoore, didn't get a shot at a HBC all day, then the Cloaked Dhampyre spawns and subsequently pwns me. And because I'm a melee, I have to run all the way back from the Gfay zoneline only to find someone took the camp on me. I'd be super ticked. AT MYSELF. Because I am the only one to blame. If I couldn't hold the camp solo, MY FAULT. If I didn't have a few people come in and help back me up if I didn't think I could keep the camp, MY FAULT. Stop blaming everyone but the guy who couldn't hold the camp.

This isn't even about loot. This is about people holding other people accountable for some sort of meta rules that only exist in their heads and nowhere in reality for anyone to review, and then calling people douchebags because they didn't follow them.

The way some of you want it, before I do anything in game, I have to check the server rules to make sure I won't get petitioned for it, then check over the OP's idea of what is right and wrong, then soup's version of what would be douchetastic or not, then send Badmartigan and skipdog and Zereh some tells to ask what they think of it to make sure I'm following their subjective code of honor, blah blah blah. That is completely ridiculous and unrealistic.

If you want to call some members of my guild douchebags for not adhering to your individual subjective codes of honor that you hold everyone accountable for, fine... I can't stop that. All I can do is try to point out that it's an unrealistic expectation that we are all responsible for knowing everyone else's version of what is acceptable and unacceptable.

I expect everyone in my guild to treat everyone on the server with respect by following the server rules that are all available to us for review. Yes, acts of courtesy above and beyond that are great and welcomed... but why are we being obligated and held accountable otherwise? Yes, IB/DW didn't have to let VD have three attempts at the Spiroc Lord the first time we tried it on our own. But they did, and it was great. Bravo to them!

But if they had swooped in and nabbed him without even so much as rezzing one of our clerics after we wiped? Completely legit. Our fault for not having our crap together on the first attempt and succeeding.

Just like the still warm enchanter corpse at the AC camp. Sorry bro. For every time someone lets you take back the camp, there are 5 other times where that person isn't shown the same courtesy when they wipe out.

How many times should that happen before it's okay for that person to stop being a doormat?

[captainspauldin]

lol half the people on this server are trash, much like ez server. if you want decent people despite somewhat of a douche gm try forrest, 90% of the people are amazing if u can put up with a baby for a gm.

[Klyre]

Listen to yourselves....I mean really listen. You are all willing to hate so easily and toss crap around. Are you all just looking for a place to rant?

It still comes down to who you are and what you are willing to follow.

Could the defendants of this rant handled it better? Yeah maybe. Are they in the wrong? Not really as by Phragmar's own words

I gave Rilen a hail and he told me that he had died

This is still within the confines of the server rules. Does this mean that you have to follow them, no the defendants could have talked it over and given Rilen the camp. Honorable. Or they could keep the camp. Sorry I guess I don't see what’s wrong with that.

Some rules in P99 are ambiguous, but this one is not, if you die you no longer have rights to the camp.

The only person who really has anything to bitch about is Rilen. But instead it’s become fair game to complain about how horrible everyone else is to you, and what a nasty guild they have over there.

[mitic]

why keep ppl sayin AC in sro is a "camp"?

its clearly not. different story in oot but not in sro.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why keep ppl sayin AC in sro is a "camp"?

its clearly not. different story in oot but not in sro.

Because its generally accepted by pretty much everyone to be a camp. I mean, there's one spawn for him. everyone knows where his spawn is. you kill his PH to get him to spawn. what makes it not a camp?

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Randy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because its generally accepted by pretty much everyone to be a camp. I mean, there's one spawn for him. everyone knows where his spawn is. you kill his PH to get him to spawn. what makes it not a camp?

i see!

ok then, going to report those 30ish people "stealing" all those quillmanes over the last 2 months after i triggered her

oh wait, i got a better idea. ill just write some emo post on the forum. yes, thats what i will do!

[Darian]

Originally Posted by Phragmar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I guess that's my question, abstract though it may be. Is it really all the same? All the same camp-stealing, kill-stealing, loot-ninjaing, hate-filled animosity from live?

Based on everything you've said, none of those things happened in this story. That's not to say those things don't happen from time to time, but it doesn't happen as often as you seem to be afraid of- reputation does matter here.

Am I going to make it to level 40 just to have someone single-handedly turn 24-hours of hard work into a waste? It's a different perspective for me, I'll confess, since I think it accounts for a lot of why games like Everquest can't be made anymore, but maybe I was more optimistic over a few good experiences than I should have been.

That's all.

First things first- I spent a total of about 12 hours at the AC camps in Sro and OoT. I wouldn't call it "hard work" so much as "a timesink I prepared myself for."

It sucks, but at the end of the day, if you hold a camp for x hours and then die, the only "someone" who's turned your work into a waste is yourself. To use a similar example, if I'm the second person in a 3-man line for the Arch Magus camp (personal experience), and the person holding the camp dies with AM at 10% life, am I honor-bound to wait the ~20 minutes for the camp holder to get back to the camp so he can have another shot? What if he wipes again? What if it becomes clear he just can't hold the camp by himself?

It just seems the crux of your argument is that the camp holder's time was wasted. I don't know the guy in question but dying at AC camp means you either got careless, got unlucky with fizzles, or bit off more than you could chew, and the VD members just weren't responsible for any of those things. It seems unfair to everyone else who wants that camp to let him have unlimited shots and deaths at it, and I think that's a big part of why the server rules are what they are.

I don't mean to sound negative to the OP or anyone else in the thread, but if this one incident is enough to make someone upset about the state of the server, then I would recommend stopping at level 45. This game can be very competitive-- but if you're prepared to drop 20+ hours at AC camp, you probably already understand that.

[Badmartigan]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i see!

ok then, going to report those 30ish people "stealing" all those quillmanes over the last 2 months after i triggered her

oh wait, i got a better idea. ill just write some emo post on the forum. yes, thats what i will do!

quill can spawn in multiple places.. ac in sro can only spawn from 1 static 31 min ph.

[Darian]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, like I said, you care about the chance of loot more than anything else. That's fine, but that generally makes you a douche bag. If you're okay with that, so be it, but don't lie to yourself and act like it isn't a douche bag thing to do.

So the guys in the right place at the right time were selfish douchebags, but the guy who wanted an item so bad he was willing to wait on one mob for 24 hours is the unselfish, non-loot-greedy victim here?

Seriously, stop and think about what "camping" means. Rilen (presumably) answered "AC" to every camp check. What does that mean? For an ENTIRE DAY, Rilen told everyone who wanted Jboots, "No. You cannot kill this mob. Only I can." That's not selfish to you?

Everyone who has ever camped anything, ever, is technically selfish. They are monopolizing a spawn/item at everyone else's expense. Some people are worse about it than others, but it's a part of this game.

DISCLAIMER: I have no problem with Rilen, or his camping, or anyone else choosing to camp anything. I do not use the word "selfish" to describe this behavior. People do not play this game solely to help other people get lewt or levels. There is an inherent selfishness to Everquest. It happens. I'm okay with it.

[Zereh]

Guess I'm on the "extend a helping hand" team and not "kick 'em when they're down". But to each their own. I just know what I'd like to happen if I were the one that died and act accordingly. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] <--imagine some rose-colored shades there