Are you kidding me?

[Sweettouch]

Originally Posted by Signal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jesus this Mistle guy really keeps going when he is on the mat doesn't he. Someone save him from himself.

How dare someone use RnF for logic?

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Sweettouch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How dare someone use RnF for logic?

Logic? He literally says "EQ has never been a game built for that sort of style" when in fact vanilla EQ was very much designed towards a competitive high end. Every single server had competition that looked like one or two guilds dominating the high end content and the rest picking up what they could. There wasn't a rotation in TOV on the server I played on, until after the top 2 guilds were busy fighting for SSRA and VT in luclin.

Wow was designed to fill the gap between hardcore mmo players and the casuals. Even in vanilla WOW there were world bosses that certain guilds dominated over others. Complaining that this server, which was intended to be a vanilla EQ server, is too tough to raid on due to competition is just a stupid excuse and doesn't actually show any logic. Vanilla EQ was meant to be a competition. WOW is the epitome of what ruined mmos so using it to try and justify some type of rotation or further GM influence in the raid scene is just stupidity.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you mistake the motivations behind what happened. Now I don't want to open old wounds so CSG members, don't take this the wrong way, I love you guys and cheer when you get mobs. But back then, MC and other small guilds weren't the problem. The problem that the middle guilds had with the situation was the double dipping some guilds were engaging in.

Yes I see this, and it should have been dealt with... but to swing the executioner's axe was a bit extreme. The result was certainly interesting though, rather than share a Class R Trakanon or Sev with ~10 other guilds they started going in rotation to BDA, Taken, (Divinity or CSG), BDA, Taken, (Divinity or CSG)....and on and on. So by axing the rotation BDA and Taken had access to more pixels, and GM enforced no less.

You think that wouldn't happen again in some form? I think it would. People always want "a little more" no matter how much (or how little) they're getting.

If BDA had as evil motivations as you attribute to them, what they would have done instead of absorbing MC (partly) is ally with them instead, and any other small guild that couldn't do a mob on its own, and take some of the loot each time. They could have loaded the rotation that way. This is basically what other guilds were already starting to do.

BDA had enough mouths to feed. I definitely saw ~80 BDA for an R-FFA Trakanon one time and allying with smaller guilds just wouldn't have been viable without flat out saying "we're taking at least half your pixels".

The outcome was never considered the optimal solution. It was probably a mistake to suggest Gorenaire as the gatekeeper mob in the discussions to revamp the rotation as well, in hindsight, as that led to bad feelings from a lot of people including Sirken (but I was not a part of the discussion and maybe there were reasons to do so clearer in private).

That was the biggest bullshit of all. BDA trying to lock out small guilds rather than giving them some room to down some bosses, and now we see them complain about CSG who had to ally to compete on level numbers. It's a BDA creation whether they like it or not.


There is no solution to the current problem without more repops...but we can certainly learn from the greedy tactics guilds of the past implemented.

Overall its funny seeing BDA wanting changes when changes THEY implemented hurt the Kunark raid scene quite immeasurably.

[jcr4990]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in fact vanilla EQ was very much designed towards a competitive high end.

That's why PvP servers were so wildly popular and why P99 Red is thriving and many servers in classic had GM enforced rotations

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Maner]

Originally Posted by jcr4990 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's why PvP servers were so wildly popular and why P99 Red is thriving and many servers in classic had GM enforced rotations

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

do you have any evidence of GM enforced rotations on classic servers?

[Ella`Ella]

Ban Poopsocking
Ban Bards
Unban Bards
Ban Bards again
Ban lull through walls
Ban popping an eye through a wall
Ban glitching through locked doors
Ban kiting
Ban any speed greater than SoW
Allow kiting in certain situations
Allow kiting but make guild sacrifice all but one dragon being kited
Ban more than 2 trackers
Make all players start at a zone line for mobs
Ban any player past zone line
Ban gating to mobs
Ban trackers getting FTE
Ban DA idol stalling
Ban any spell after a single DA spell/item/effect is already used
Ban Ogre Walls
Ban Crown of Rile

See what I'm getting at?

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Gimp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We desperately need a GM familiar with the raid scene and mechanics and not someone that just throws out rules and punishments when they feel like it. This isn't a knock on Sirken, it's just obvious he's not familiar with the tactics that are and have been used to pull dragons for years.

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real problems are more centered around...
[B]
1) GM intervention is inconsistent (This is what creates lawyerquest) and CSR has yet to have a GM on staff that understands the raid scene and mechanics fully.

Heard 'dat

[jcr4990]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

do you have any evidence of GM enforced rotations on classic servers?

Finding concrete evidence of that is going to be next to impossible. I can link you prolly 100 posts of people saying that their server was like that in classic but that doesn't "prove" anything does it? What kind of evidence are you looking for? How about the fact that they did it recently on TLP's?

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/...ockjaw.225229/

My server in classic was a kind of First in Force system and it was definitely GM enforced. Nobody tracked shit for 16 hours and FTE'd it in under a minute though. People just periodically checked if shit was up and if it was they mobilized to kill it and whoever had a raid force present first got the first attempt at it. If you wiped other guilds could try. Some guild tried to leapfrog my guild for Faydedar in classic and a GM showed up within minutes and told them to fuck off. They made a habit of trying to leapfrog and eventually I think they ate a suspension or something. I don't remember exactly what the punishment was.

[reborn649]

All idiot remarks aside:

This same argument has been coming up for years now and will literally never go away because there is absolutely NO WAY to make everyone happy.

Classic saw 1, maybe 2 high end guilds doing the content during an expansions release. This clearly isnt a classic server, so we have a handful of guilds all trying to see the same end game. Either setup a GM enforced rotation (which will clear out a good percentage of players) or make a rule of "FTE by any means necessary" (which will clear out a good percentage of players). There is NO WAY to make everyone happy. Trying to argue that certain items give the slightest advantage and penalizing players for farming those items and having the intelligence to know how to use them for an advantage is the most absurd train of thought I have ever heard. What fun is it if everyone is on the exact same page? If you want that, just make the rules that everyone should wear cloth gear, zero buffs, and if you have less than 60 FPS you cannot participate for fear of advantage.

Also banning people without any sanctioned "rule" in place is completely unnecessary. What people have been doing for years on this server cannot justifiably cause a suspension due to a couple people's complaint.

Start a new blue server, FTE by any means necessary, or GM enforced rotation. Without any of those 3 things happening, this idiocy will never end.

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Sweettouch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How dare someone use RnF for logic?

Signal is still upset from humiliations earlier. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Honestly his posts have been so shitty I am surprised he is still bothering to post with that account.