George Washington "a Prophet"

[Blitzers]

Originally Posted by Goliathan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As an American woman who is married to another American woman. I feel people's idea about the "assault on family" to be a little dumb. A family is what works for a group of people that promotes healthy relationships between people and raises healthy non shitters.

Why do they always say that one man one woman or kids will be fucked up. I've met fucked up kids from every kind of family. People should be happy if a family is loving and good. Nothing else really matters.

The whole Judeo Christian idea of marriage and family is laughable when England and many other civilized nations used to and still do sell their daughters into marriage for power and wealth gains. The whole things a joke. "Family values" should be about the values a family holds. Love. Trust. Respect. Tolerance.

Okay that was kind of a rant.

I REGRET NOTHING!

Girl on girl action can we get some pics?

Personally I don't care if you get married. My position is neither the state or the Feds should be involved it's an establishment of "ALL" religion over those non religious. Thousands of years before governments existed marriage was a religious ceremony for the government to be involved is a 1st amendment breach, doesn't matter gay or straight.

[Pokesan]

a wildly incorrect interpretation of the establishment clause

[Blitzers]

Originally Posted by Pokesan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a wildly incorrect interpretation of the establishment clause

Application is not interpretation.

[Goliathan]

Originally Posted by Blitzers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Girl on girl action can we get some pics?

Personally I don't care if you get married. My position is neither the state or the Feds should be involved it's an establishment of "ALL" religion over those non religious. Thousands of years before governments existed marriage was a religious ceremony for the government to be involved is a 1st amendment breach, doesn't matter gay or straight.

Some marriages were religious. But more often they're power plays with religious ceremony. I'm a firm believer in marriage and family. For love. For all. Not just because it allows my wife and I to share a tax return. I don't care if the ceremony is religious or based on Faries. All that matters is love. With divorce rates as high as they are? Something is broken and it's not the fault of gay marriage.

I know that we're just a convenient target to get the far right all whipped up but the denial of logic just causes all of me to recoil like nails on powdered steel. If you had religious marriage ceremonies and non? Fine. But that won't be good enough for people.

Hate reigns. Love begs not to be shot in the head in the name of love

[Blitzers]

Originally Posted by Goliathan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some marriages were religious. But more often they're power plays with religious ceremony. I'm a firm believer in marriage and family. For love. For all. Not just because it allows my wife and I to share a tax return. I don't care if the ceremony is religious or based on Faries. All that matters is love. With divorce rates as high as they are? Something is broken and it's not the fault of gay marriage.

I know that we're just a convenient target to get the far right all whipped up but the denial of logic just causes all of me to recoil like nails on powdered steel. If you had religious marriage ceremonies and non? Fine. But that won't be good enough for people.

Hate reigns. Love begs not to be shot in the head in the name of love

So the government decides the definition of marriage? Marriage has been defined by historical events. It's a religious ceremony and the government shouldn't be involved whatsoever. It's a 1st amendment breach, establishing and prohibiting because you must have a government approval (marriage license) to be married. Love doesn't matter, people marrying for love is really quite a new idea in the timeline of the world.

[Danth]

It's been said that Napoleon Bonaparte, even after his own downfall, couldn't fathom why Washington willingly stepped down.

As a tidbit, Washington was more or less murdered by his doctors. He got sick and his inept doctors bled him 5 pints of blood. Unsurprisingly the old man died. Until relatively recent times it was oftentimes safer to take your chances with illness than visit a doctor.

Daywolf: I would argue that benefiting from the status quo isn't why Americans don't care about remaining slavery in the world. Rather I think it's more of a case of "Out of sight, out of mind." People tend not to care much about things which aren't immediately apparent. Instead of going overseas, look at how badly we treat our own aged and infirm. We lock them away in nursing homes--essentially jailing them for having committed no crime except getting old--siphoning away whatever money they saved up and mistreating and neglecting them. A few thousand years of civilization isn't sufficient to fully elevate us as a species above our instinctual tendency to care mainly about ourselves and nearest tribe members.

Danth

[Pokesan]

Originally Posted by Blitzers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a 1st amendment breach

again, that's not how the establishment clause works. knock it off.

[Goliathan]

Originally Posted by Blitzers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the government decides the definition of marriage? Marriage has been defined by historical events. It's a religious ceremony and the government shouldn't be involved whatsoever. It's a 1st amendment breach, establishing and prohibiting because you must have a government approval (marriage license) to be married. Love doesn't matter, people marrying for love is really quite a new idea in the timeline of the world.

Of course it is. The government wouldn't have to be involved if people didn't shove their version of their religion in your face. Problem is we have religious gay people who want to be married the religious way. I'd be happy with it just. Not mattering. However being denied marriage because of religion that directly cuts you off from government benefits that straight people have because of it? Not okay.

The combination of church and state in this country is nearly absolute but for a few. Love came about in the Victorian era. I just think the bulk of it is insane. The very idea that our country of diverse people from diverse culture and religion must all most abide by the Chritian way of things for marriage and our personal lives? No thanks.

I don't have any idea how to fix it. All I know is I'm worried we will suffer most of all.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Goliathan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some marriages were religious. But more often they're power plays with religious ceremony.

See, this is part of the problem here. I bring up assault on the family and someone automatically thinks this is about gay marriage, from someone who is gay. And in doing so, only shows the problem with gay marriage, that when it comes to talking points it tends to trump the underlining problems with the governments war on the family.

Family as in those that are married and they have children, family. So no, you simply hijacked my comment, turned it into your own gay little rant against people you just don't like and with a chip on your shoulder. That's exactly what they are hoping you do, as a matter of activism, to bring in another group to the debate on families, and to cover the actions of those that wage war on families as they have for a generation and more aggressively so now.

And there is more to the issue, but my comment wasn't about gay marriage, but the larger issue that gay marriage proponents are ignoring and helping to cover-up by doing so, such in that second vid link where the vet outright nails it, fantastic interview. But no, we gotta turn it into some little gay marriage issue while people are suffering under this assault or war on the family.

[Goliathan]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See, this is part of the problem here. I bring up assault on the family and someone automatically thinks this is about gay marriage, from someone who is gay. And in doing so, only shows the problem with gay marriage, that when it comes to talking points it tends to trump the underlining problems with the governments war on the family.

Family as in those that are married and they have children, family. So no, you simply hijacked my comment, turned it into your own gay little rant against people you just don't like and with a chip on your shoulder. That's exactly what they are hoping you do, as a matter of activism, to bring in another group to the debate on families, and to cover the actions of those that wage war on families as they have for a generation and more aggressively so now.

And there is more to the issue, but my comment wasn't about gay marriage, but the larger issue that gay marriage proponents are ignoring and helping to cover-up by doing so, such in that second vid link where the vet outright nails it, fantastic interview. But no, we gotta turn it into some little gay marriage issue while people are suffering under this assault or war on the family.

What other war on family is there. Do you mean keeping people in poverty? Because when people say war on the American family. They absolutely usually mean because of people who don't fit the one man one woman definition.

It's not hijacking. It's directly related. As the families most under attack are families like mine. So..yeah. I don't see any group trying to dissolve the family unit of middle class Christian conservatives.

However. I do see them voting for and passing horrificly discriminatory legislation.

I'm fully willing to observe other points. I'd prefer if this kind of stuff didn't happen at all. Sadly I've never heard an argument against my kind of family that didn't boil down to the bible.

I don't want you to look at me like I'm some crazy hard left nut bag. I've just experienced enough to know what I should worry about and fear I guess.