Enchanter vs Bard

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think he was talking about bard AoE mez, not chanter. Chanter AoE mez is indeed the best, it is almost always my number 1 spell gem and I rarely use any other mez. I havent really used Bard AoE mez since the early Kunark nerf, so not sure if it is still worthless, but I'm pretty sure it isn't ridiculously OP like it used to be.

Edit: I think the reason the wiki claims it doesnt work as well 25+ is because it used to work amazingly well 25+, and in contrast it is a far cry from what it used to be. Bards used to be able to lock down entire end game zones, and unless things have changed, they definitely can't anymore. It might still be situationally useful now, especially at lower levels, but I highly doubt many 50+ bards are using it with any regularity.

ah yes my bad heh!

[brecon]

OP question was about group desirability. As several commentators have said, Bards can fulfill multiple roles, and they stack well with enchanters. Because of this, Bards are very difficult to play well. You need to really know your songs and adjust your twist based upon (1) your role, (2) the group composition, (3) the mobs you are fighting.

This leads to a second issue: there are lots of bad bards out there. Any bard that leveled up by aoe kiting is unlikely to have the full mastery over his song library. This becomes especially problematic in the 40s, when bards get a lot of songs that can be hugely useful for xp grouping, but seem somewhat similar until you play around with them.

If I was in an xp group and we had a choice between an enchanter and a bard for a sole CC slot, I'd take an enchanter. Even if the enchanter is bad and doesn't charm, he still should be able to CC small numbers while casting haste and clarity. For a bard to CC 3 mobs, he won't be able to play both mana regen and haste at the same time...

But as said before, a Bard can fill in as puller, or as a Tank (though this falls off in the 50s, similar to ranger -tanks), or as a dps, or as haste/mana pump, or as a CC. So if you get a group with a skilled bard, all you need is a healer and any 4 other classes.

[nhdjoseywales]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think he was talking about bard AoE mez, not chanter. Chanter AoE mez is indeed the best, it is almost always my number 1 spell gem and I rarely use any other mez. I havent really used Bard AoE mez since the early Kunark nerf, so not sure if it is still worthless, but I'm pretty sure it isn't ridiculously OP like it used to be.

Edit: I think the reason the wiki claims it doesnt work as well 25+ is because it used to work amazingly well 25+, and in contrast it is a far cry from what it used to be. Bards used to be able to lock down entire end game zones, and unless things have changed, they definitely can't anymore. It might still be situationally useful now, especially at lower levels, but I highly doubt many 50+ bards are using it with any regularity.

Funny story....when i moved back to live and rolled a chanter on Lockjaw i ran into several folks who felt they needed to "tell me how to play an enchanter" and how they never ever use ae mezz and how useless it is. I still laugh at those people. It works even better on live becasue you can overwrite it with longer duration mezzes. I cant count the number of times ae mezz has saved the groups ass from an accidental or intentional train. And of course the time i was out of grouping the chanter for buffs and nukes and the in group druid freaked out and evaced my wizzies group. Ae mezz, origin, problem solved.

[Troxx]

My biggest frustration with cc-ing on a bard was touched on above. If I'm trying to mez more than 2 targets it gets hard to keep haste/regen etc up. The one exception to this is the aoe snare song. If you have room to kite (doesn't take much room as the snare is wtfpowerful with strings equipped) you can cc 3 mobs or 30 mobs pretty effortlessly while keeping 2-3 other songs rolling. The snare cc is not for the feint of heart though. One slip up with a lot of cc-d mobs can turn ugly if they bash you at the wrong time and the snare drops.

It's powerful but kinda a zero sum thing on intentionally large pulls. If the bard dies you now have 3, 5, or 10 mobs loose in camp with no cc.

Fastest group I was ever in was 3 rogues a monk cleric and me in an otherwise empty KC. Monk just chain pulled 5-6 at a time while I kept it all locked/snared/chasing-me and the rogues mowed them down with bardly haste.

I'm pretty sure we kept both cys, captain, moat, and most of basement dead with some downtime. Only problem was when we pulled mobs that summoned. Monk had to avoid those for routine pulls and single them after the swarms were dead.

[Coridan]

I definitely still use my AoE mez in the 40s at least. Has saved my groups a couple times in SolA. It does get more oftne now than it used to, but it is still more reliable than fear, which is a missed note like 3 out of every 5 castings.