If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Originally Posted by Hauling [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's far more evidence that dreams exist than god exists. I can't prove to you what I dreamt about last night, at least not with current technology, but if you really want to go through the trouble, it can be proven that I do dream.

Can I show you the exact images that were in my head? Not yet, but I can hook myself up to a machine, record my brainwaves while I sleep, and if I report having a dream, I can study the brainwaves and compare them to scans of times when I slept and did not report a dream. I can do this over and over again in a repeatable, consistent manner, not only for myself but for anyone, and there are people who do this, for large cross-sections of the population and they get consistent results, and they publish them to be reviewed, confirmed or even contested by their peers.

Now, as you've asked, can I prove that I had a dream about a bear eating a pickle? No. I can certainly lie about it, but the door swings both ways on that one. You are free to be as skeptical about my pickle eating bear as you want. Fact is, though, I don't have much incentive to lie about my dreams. Is there anything to be gained from it? Is there anything to be gained by lying about god? Certainly there is, especially back in the days when the idea of a single god came about. Money and power, not to mention all the stuff that gets attached to it when you start to believe your own lies, like an eternal life of happiness with all your friends and family and everyone in history you'd like to hob-nob with and your first dog Tippy.

Further, by this analogy, do I need to prove to you that I also took a piss this morning? Do I also need to prove to you that I am even capable of taking a piss? Or do you think there's enough existing evidence out there that you can infer from that I do indeed piss?

I did not ask if you can prove that you DO dream. I asked if you can prove what the dream was about...and you cannot. Does that mean you did not have that dream? No. Read the post before you reply. And I am not sure what your fascination with peeing is, but No I do not need proof that you "piss". You are trying to twist my concept to make your epeen appear to be bigger, when in reality you just come across as incompetent in your argument against my original question.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by quellren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the first Law of Thermodynamics. You don't have to know where it is, or what it weighs to understand that you cannot create or destroy energy.

I know you can't create or destroy energy. (given current knowledge)

That wasn't my point. How do we "know" that anything has "always been"? The very nature of that is beyond our understanding.

[Kassel]

If you believe something can not be created or destroyed its pretty logical that it has always been.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Originally Posted by Hauling [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

5,793,732,000 people believe in god, therefore god exists. This is a fallacy of false cause, I believe.

cum hoc ergo propter hoc: believing that correlation implies a causal relation.

Already been addressed...read earlier post.

[Hauling]

Originally Posted by Boggwin Bramblefoot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did not ask if you can prove that you DO dream. I asked if you can prove what the dream was about...and you cannot. Does that mean you did not have that dream? No. Read the post before you reply. And I am not sure what your fascination with peeing is, but No I do not need proof that you "piss". You are trying to twist my concept to make your epeen appear to be bigger, when in reality you just come across as incompetent in your argument against my original question.

I can say the same, you missed my paragraph 3 where I explained the difference between your argument for a god and my argument for what I dreamt about last night.

You believe in god, you can't prove it any more than I can prove what I dreamt about last night. That is a fact. But I am not making the claim that I dreamt about a bear eating a pickle last night. Had I made that claim you are free to be as skeptical about it as you like, just as I said, much like what I'm doing with your claim about god. I can't say this for certain, but I am pretty sure you yourself have experienced dreams first hand, much the same way I have experienced dreams first hand. So, if our roles were reversed and you were the one with the pickle eating bear dream claim, I have enough first hand experience with dreams that I wouldn't even feel the need to question it. I can't say that about your claims for a god.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Originally Posted by quellren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the first Law of Thermodynamics. You don't have to know where it is, or what it weighs to understand that you cannot create or destroy energy.

The law of conservation of energy (the First Law of Thermodynamics) is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created or destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy.

Prove that the Universe is a closed system. You cannot. No one can. Many have theories, but no proof, and most believe that is an Open System. So Mr. science guy, the law of conservation of energy cannot apply to the Universe which means matter CAN be created and destroyed with the Universe. I ask again...how did that matter come to being. Answer - GOD!

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Originally Posted by Hauling [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can say the same, you missed my paragraph 3 where I explained the difference between your argument for a god and my argument for what I dreamt about last night.

You believe in god, you can't prove it any more than I can prove what I dreamt about last night. That is a fact. But I am not making the claim that I dreamt about a bear eating a pickle last night. Had I made that claim you are free to be as skeptical about it as you like, just as I said, much like what I'm doing with your claim about god. I can't say this for certain, but I am pretty sure you yourself have experienced dreams first hand, much the same way I have experienced dreams first hand. So, if our roles were reversed and you were the one with the pickle eating bear dream claim, I have enough first hand experience with dreams that I wouldn't even feel the need to question it. I can't say that about your claims for a god.

You miss the point of the argument. I am saying that just because something cannot be proven by science...which has been wrong so many times in the past...does not mean it does not exist. (fact) Can we agree on that? So therefore you must admit that there is a possibility that God does exist. If you do not, then you are not following your own logic. I choose to believe that God does exist.

[quellren]

Originally Posted by Kassel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you believe something can not be created or destroyed its pretty logical that it has always been.

It's pointless, man. Any attempt to impart even basic scientific principle is met with the internet equivalent of " *sticks fingers in ears* Nuh-uh! Nuh-uh! Lalalalala I CAN'T HEAR YOU! Lalalala" and "You weren't there, you can't know that it's always been like that" despite overwhelming evidence that points it to be the case.

[Hauling]

Originally Posted by Boggwin Bramblefoot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The law of conservation of energy (the First Law of Thermodynamics) is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created or destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy.

Prove that the Universe is a closed system. You cannot. No one can. Many have theories, but no proof, and most believe that is an Open System. So Mr. science guy, the law of conservation of energy cannot apply to the Universe which means matter CAN be created and destroyed with the Universe. I ask again...how did that matter come to being. Answer - GOD!

I think you missed a few steps there. It's always a leap to god for you religious folks without ever digging deeper. Our understanding of the universe and physics is incomplete. Does that mean we won't learn more? Yes, if we always jump to conclusions like you just did.

[Henini]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Life on a planet doesn't start with fury four legged animals.

yes it does, god made it that way, you ignorant fool!