Muslims in Denmark protesting for a caliphate, Sweden now rape capital of the west

[Rastignac]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rast the problem does not originate with people it originates with Islam. How much of the Koran have you read? The values espoused by that text are patently incompatible with Western ideals. Muslims are different from previous immigrant groups in that regard. And that is the reason for failed assimilation.

Lol how much of the bible have you read? The Torah? None of it is compatible with post-enlightenment Western ideals. There's not a bit of social democracy to be found in those texts. For much of the last millennium the Muslim world was more tolerant than the Western world. And we share a great deal of the blame for the radicalization that has occurred in the last half-century.

And, all that aside, you propose to deal with this by rounding them up and imposing cultural re-education regimens?


Thank god those who share your views are so politically disorganized, so driven by the least common denominator, that they have no hope of electing a president in the foreseeable future.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Rastignac [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And your skepticism about the NYT poll is laughable. First of all its inclusion would not have substantially altered the statistical results. Secondly it was a very long time ago and the world has changed dramatically since. Third of all it would have no relevant bearing as a predictor of the behavior of Muslim immigrants, which has been stellar compared to the behavior of other Americans.

Statistics are often the refuge of a simple mind. You have racist confirmation bias painted on every word you write.

Data is the refuge of the simple mind? Reliance on fact is the hallmark of science and reason.

I don't disagree that since 9/11 other forms of terrorism are more damaging than Muslim terrorism in the US, but my point isn't about terrorist violence, it's about culture.

Originally Posted by Rastignac [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol how much of the bible have you read? The Torah? None of it is compatible with post-enlightenment Western ideals. There's not a bit of social democracy to be found in those texts. For much of the last millennium the Muslim world was more tolerant than the Western world. And we share a great deal of the blame for the radicalization that has occurred in the last half-century.

And, all that aside, you propose to deal with this by rounding them up and imposing cultural re-education regimens?


Thank god those who share your views are so politically disorganized, so driven by the least common denominator, that they have no hope of electing a president in the foreseeable future.

You know it's funny, many of the things I'm suggesting as a way to deal with the integration of Muslims are similar to ways we've tried to integrate blacks in the United States. I don't hear you complaining about LBJ being fascist.

[Rastignac]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rast the problem does not originate with people it originates with Islam. How much of the Koran have you read? The values espoused by that text are patently incompatible with Western ideals. Muslims are different from previous immigrant groups in that regard. And that is the reason for failed assimilation.

Do you know where I see failed assimilation? Texas. Talk about a waste of an enlightenment.

[Lune]

This isn't some perfect allegory to the immigration of Irish and Italians into the US in the 1800's / early 1900's. If you think the Irish and Italian narrative mirrors the Muslim immigrant narrative, you're not capturing it accurately.

There are already massive Muslim minorities in European countries who are unequivocally failing to assimilate, and hundreds of thousands more are coming. I don't think 'Let them in, we're all the same, multiculturalism is good' is any more realistic or sensible a position than 'let's think of informed ways to handle a deeply religious immigrant population with extremely incompatible values''

You're right that the bible and Torah are also very incompatible with post-enlightenment Western ideals, but you can't seriously be claiming politics and religion are anywhere near as entwined among Westerners as they are among most Muslims. Sharia law, religious law, is the norm in most Muslim countries, and religious values dictate political values to a much greater extent among Muslims than they do in the West. In Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, and many parts of Indonesia, I'd be a criminal for being an atheist.

[Rastignac]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Data is the refuge of the simple mind? Reliance on fact is the hallmark of science and reason.

I don't disagree that since 9/11 other forms of terrorism are more damaging than Muslim terrorism in the US, but my point isn't about terrorist violence, it's about culture.



You know it's funny, many of the things I'm suggesting as a way to deal with the integration of Muslims are similar to ways we've tried to integrate blacks in the United States. I don't hear you complaining about LBJ being fascist.

Integrate blacks? Blacks have been here since day one.

But here I am giving you exactly what you want, and what you don't deserve. Go ye back to your echo chamber and ponder the sonorities of your dismal mind. I gotta get back to work.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Rastignac [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In point of fact, America, as a traditionally Christian nation, has far more culture in common with Muslims, another people of the book, then they do with Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Southeast Asians, etc.

And yet the Asians assimilate more successfully. The Asians don't fly planes into buildings, blow themselves up to kill non-believers, or kill people because of cartoons. Perhaps successful assimilation requires more than just a 3000 year old book in common.

[Rastignac]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't some perfect allegory to the immigration of Irish and Italians into the US in the 1800's / early 1900's.

There are already massive Muslim minorities in European countries who are unequivocally failing to assimilate, and hundreds of thousands more are coming. I don't think 'Let them in, we're all the same, multiculturalism is good' is any more realistic or sensible a position than 'let's think of informed ways to handle a deeply religious immigrant population with extremely incompatible values''

You're right that the bible and Torah are also very incompatible with post-enlightenment Western ideals, but you can't seriously be claiming politics and religion are anywhere near as entwined among Westerners as they are among most Muslims. Sharia law, religious law, is the norm in most Muslim countries, and religious values dictate political values to a much greater extent among Muslims than they do in the West. In Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, and many parts of Indonesia, I'd be a criminal for being an atheist.

haha. Christian fundamentalists are the bane of our political process! We just had a bible thumper shoot up a planned parenthood.

GET OUT OF TOWN

- DROPS MIC -

[Rastignac]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And yet the Asians assimilate more successfully. The Asians don't fly planes into buildings, blow themselves up to kill non-believers, or kill people because of cartoons. Perhaps successful assimilation requires more than just a 3000 year old book in common.

none of this is true. genocide is rampant in Asian history. And muslim americans are a statistically peaceful, productive part of American society.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, and many parts of Indonesia, I'd be a criminal for being an atheist.

Not just a criminal. Saudi Arabia recently sentenced a man to death for apostasy. Fucking insane!

[ronasch]

Originally Posted by Rastignac [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you read the thread then you would know I dismantled the all-too-charitable notion that there are competing reasonable views here a few pages in. What you call an exchange of views is really just a bunch of bone heads trotting out their jingoism and xenophobia, indulging in peurile pleasure, and then donning a tone of moderation later on to feel better about themselves. This conversation is not virtuous. If you want to educate yourself read real news

oh oh, another pseudo-intellectual, can't wait to read his next post. We're so inferior o'wise one.