Spells: Abolish Enchantment (Abashi's Rod of Disempowerment)

[Colgate]

Originally Posted by Bokke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One forum post is not evidence. The previously posted patch notes are evidence.
Thanks for your input.

last i checked, in-era forum posts are typically considered evidence around here

there isn't a single shred of evidence that explicitly states that detrimental effects are included in the dispel mechanics of Abolish Enchantment, however, the aforementioned in-era Allakhazam post explicitly states that it skips detrimental effects

[krazyGlue]

/popcorn

[Jeni]

Originally Posted by Gongshow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right - the SPDAT was never written out with the verbiage "Beneficial Only" until 2012 - yet there is mountains of posts from 1 to 11 years prior specifically stating that it is beneficial only. Also Fading Memories was changed back to Cancel Magic in 2012 - yet on Live to this day, Abashi still dispells random buffs. Does that mean Cancel Magic = Random buff slot dispell? No, of course not - but it certainly means that there's much more to the data then most of us know or will ever be able to see.

This item is the single most farmed item on Live PVP, has been for years, and still is to this very day. Do you guys really think people farm(ed) this item religiously for a standard 3 slot debuff? Of course not, Abolish is extremely unique as it outclasses every other dispell in the game.

Please stop trolling, pals - keep it in RNF.

? not following this

[Doors]

Originally Posted by Jeni [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

? not following this

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[Star]

I haven't checked entire thread but I don't think a Dev has looked at pvp bug forums in months. I would forward to Ele or Daldean and have them post this in the other big section. I have seen nilbog respond within hours and get something fixed there. Just a tip pal.

[Jeni]

I don't think posting factual proof is trolling. How about post some factual proof for your side of the argument if you want to sway opinion?

[Daldaen]

So, my EQLive memory is hazy, but you're free to confirm this on live at any time.

1. All dispells, Cancel magic and otherwise, were at one point revamped away from the classic version you are aware of, into a beneficial priority dispells. This was done during the advent of "Cure Detrimental" effects such as the Radiant Cure AA and Purification AA.

Basically they wanted you to start removing debuffs which didn't have a counter (like say a snare or a Druid magic DoT), using those AAs, rather than buff stacking and dispelling top.

Dispells would prioritize removing beneficial spells, until every beneficial buff is removed and THEN it would start eating detrimentals. Again, if you believe this is false on live, go ahead and buff up 10 buffs, DoT yourself in 1st slot and spam dispells. Check the results.

2. Dispells changed to be random slot. This was a widespread change to the mechanics of casted dispells (all the player casted ones). I think dragon AEs retained their top-down mechanic, all the other ones got random slots or worked on the counter-system that we have here, I was never clear on that aspect. Should you disagree with this, again, feel free to log onto live buff up 10 buffs and start spamming cancel magic to see what happens.

Abashi's is rough. There weren't a horribly large number of them floating around pre-2002. I'd say evidence from 2002/2003 should be considered, but much past that, I'd say expect to see lots of mechanics changed like I described above.

Now I wasn't able to read through every post you quoted, but the majority seemed to be 2006+ era, which isn't the best time period to gauge the validity of your assertion. Based on a quick Allakhazam review, you've got posts like this:

November 2001:

This is a right click dispell that dispells ONE of your buffs. At first it was instant cast and unlimited charges, but it now has a casting time. It was so rediculously overpowered for pvp (and in general) that there was no way they could have left it alone. Still a great beat stick. looks like velium brawl stick.

It would be useful if someone can pull up the January/April 2001 spdat info on Abolish Enchantments to see if there is more specific data there.

I'm pretty sure this quote is incorrect, not much reason for the dispell to be single slot, though if it was ever flagged instant, that is possible I suppose. If no one checks the Velious spdat I can when I get home later tonight.

[Gongshow]

Thanks Daldaen.

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced at this point after the trolling and additional research that the "random" part was due to the Fading Memories change. At least I'm willing to accept that because I'm too lazy to dig further. It still leaves a few questions unanswered but like I said, yeah, too lazy. So that would mean 2004 was the earliest documented definitive change to "random".

The beneficial only part of the Abashi has been the selling point for as long as I can remember and as long as I can see - which wasn't quite rivaled until the release of Nature's Balance line, and even then until the Anguish Monk BP with 1 slot Fading Memories. The trolling notion that it was never beneficial only until 2012 is pretty comical because it's based on the verbiage of the SPDAT (which never explicitly said the words "Beneficial Only"). An analogy I can think of would be trying to say the spell "Fear" never made you run away because the SPDAT never had the words "Run Away" recorded.

I'm pretty pleased with the accuracy of the Abashi click in it's current form right now after a bit more research - I think it is pretty close and spot on as we will ever get for the era. The only thing I can see as a glaring flaw is that it is definitely not 250 range (tested by a ranger with 50 Range Arrow and 200 Range Bow). It is more like 210 (just outside the range of a Forged Javelin).

[Nirgon]

Need a mod to cleanup in here (the Doors post for example)

[ducktv]

this is the most garbage post I have ever read. fix the range, that's all that has to be done here. not like Gongshow is ever going to pvp anyway.