Discussion on 20 minute engage rule for undead bard (trak guts) when next patch comes

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The issue I have is someone turning in then taking however long they want. Hours maybe? Twenty minutes is fine. Mobilize your force, go do the turnin, kill the dragon. Everyone needs to stop thinking of it like Ragefire where you turn in first then solve all the other problems after.

Why does it matter how long they take?

It doesn't delay the respawn timer at all as far as I'm aware, so it really doesn't impact anyone else. The respawn time should start from non-KoS UDB despawn upon Lute Body turn in.

If they want to take 20 hours clearing down to Trakanon and wiping 15 times to finally kill it. It should still respawn 4 hours later.

I can understand a disagreement with a "turn in first, figure out your kill force later". But if you disagree With that you're basically forcing guilds to have a kill force present near spawn time. Which is dumb when they're either click spamming or rolling against maybe 4-5 other people. You're asking 4-5 different 20 man kill forces to be available within 20 minutes in a very remote zone that requires a 20min clear down or a CotH setup... That's not reasonable to expect of many guilds. Many of whom can kill Vox or Trakanon or Gorenaire.

[maestrom]

Lets keep this civil bros.

The purpose of UDB, VSR, and Triggered Fay was to give casuals a way to get their epics without competing with raiders. Its very clearly stated in the patch message. It may be that, most of the time, a casual guild is capable of taking these targets down in less than 20 minutes. If that's the case, awesome. But what if a casual guild takes its first ever shot at UDB trak and wipes out with trak at 2%? Should Rampage be able to kill trak take the guts BP and roll out? Even if they leave the guts for bard, should they get to keep the BP?

Your lute your trak. Period. If your guild wants to give up and let someone else take it in exchange for the guts, thats fine, but its your guild's trak and your guild can keep trying until it decides to call it a night.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Spyder73 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Trak dies in under 5 minutes on Blue, this is including the time it takes to actually kill him, the raid guilds have it down to a fine science - Logging in for 15 minutes once a day to basically /random for 20k....I guess we will see who is right, i predict extreme farm fest mode.

UDB is a little more complicated than doing a normal rush trak engage. Adding in the need to do the turn in + kill the aggro UDB to spawn trak.

If there is as much competition for UDB/fake as some are prophesying, then cut the values dramatically, if you have a 33-50% success rate on turn-in FTE with 1-2 more guilds vying for UDB.

P.S. - Guts will be the least valued item from this whole thing, it would not surprise me if they went on rot status very quickly and any bard who wants them can just have them.

If guts go rot status and bards that need can freely have them, then what is the issue?

Guilds fighting and training each other over a 20k BP after they each invested a white and red scale for the opportunity? How many bards/guilds have an extra white and red scale they can/will dedicate to a lute?

[Swish]

How are the casual guilds (BDA certainly isnt that) ever meant to learn if they have their triggered mobs taken away after 1 wipe or the 20 minute mark being reached?

Same old guilds looking to pounce in an ever more competitive raid scene. For the community's sake, have a word with yourselves and leave smaller guilds that havent killed 1000 Traks to deal with the encounter. Help them verbally etc, give them advice if they ask for it.

Not sure why doing something such as "helping" is so vilified here, not in the spirit of Classic EverQuest imo...especially considering its hard enough for emerging guilds to move up to bigger things.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by Vallanor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think we're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist (yet). If it's a shit show a month after the patch, then something can be worked out.

Yep, this is probably a very pointless thread. Treating this like a Fermi problem:
-There are about 1500 active players a night, the total population is higher but we really only care about the number of people who can log on per night.

-Bards are 1/14 of all classes but I think a less represented class overall so I will say 1/25 (there are some other factors here like how many actually play a bard past 50)
-Lets say the average player has 2 toons they play to sufficient level for this to matter. (I know some have many more, many have none at all)

3000 * 1/21 * 2 = 285ish

Now this is kind of hard for me because of generally playing in hardcore guilds. The average likeliness of an end game bard having an epic is? 40%? (WAG) So we say

143 * .6 = 86

Then another difficult one is what is the chance your guild has a scale for your bard. I don't really think every guild has a stock pile so maybe 1/3 chance your guild, assuming you have one, has one for you.

29

The number of days a guild that actively raids and goes after targets would be willing to have people do this for you and nothing else where they would have toons parked etc. Basically the likeliness that you can get a raid force ready at the spawn time that is reoccurring (another WAG, think Im being generous) 3/7

12 per night and probably drop pretty quick.

All This could all be way off and the numbers might be swollen for the first couple of days but I guarantee they will tapper off quickly. Consider the 8th ring quest which the lead up work can be done in a day, used on multiple characters, sometimes done twice for the same toon, and doesn't require 3 groups to complete only has nightly rollers in the teens. Also people aren't making new epic level bards nearly as quickly.

So maybe expect this to be an issue for a month? Im sure there will be some farming like there is with Ragefire but on the whole much less likely.

In conclusion / TL;DR there are more bard swarming complaints than posts about bard epics. Clearly bards should be banned.

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whats wrong with them taking their time? It's not anyone else's spawn than theirs.

UDB pops when Trak is up, so his timer isn't based on Trak. Is it based on fake trak? Or is it just based on UDB?

Why does it matter how long they take?

You turn in your epic lute body to this UDB. He returns the lute body immediately (appears in your inventory), becomes enraged, he needs to be killed. He is around level 55-56. Ask to have Rune V cast on you, as the Undead Bard will hit hard, this way you can make it back to your group alive. When the enraged undead bard is killed, Trakanon spawns. He drops Trak guts 100% of the time, and also drops a Trakanonian BP or class chest item (random) but no teeth. If you don't kill this Trakanon in time, the Trak clone will despawn after 20 minutes. UDB will not respawn until another 18 +/- 4 hours. If the real Trakanon spawns during this time, he will kill the UDB.

Relevant bolded. You can't take your time - if you don't engage within 20 min it depops.

[Atmas]

I did all that math and almost forgot the best part. Two mobs which spawn once a week drop those scales. Let's be generous and say 2 a week appear on the server. That means way more spawn opportunities than are even maintainable given drop rate. Also as someone mentioned 20 minutes until despawn so this thread is moot.

[dafier]

Personally, leave as is but give guts to turn in bro/girl.

[Zombiehasslehoff]

It should be a roll off for guts /ran 1000 and /ran 1500 if you stuck around to help the night before.

[Erati]

forget what is the consensus with the triggered Trak - does he poison AE?

if he doesnt, he easily could be kited for a lil bit so the 20 min depop timer is not that huge of deal if we respect YLYT ( Your Lute, Your Trak)