The Common Man's NToV Raid Rules Thread

[Rararboker]

If people weren't pulling it to wtov it wouldn't be an issue. I was there in ntov when it all happened. That video only shows the door from iki side. Elament jumped up there when it was closed and couldn't see the mobs. No clue who opened it. But it isnt exactly prof either way as you couldn't see what was going on on the other side.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for Forsaken breaking up to get around the rules. Predictably, my solution is "Don't let them do that."

How do you monitor this? Do you know all of Rampage's third alts when they splinter to <Inglorious Cucumbers> to FIF Statue while Rampage stays in NTOV? I know I don't. So then I'm relying on CSR to do that, which if CSR was more involved, we wouldn't need this conversation about "don't train" because CSR would stop us for training. You want something that is self policing with rules that cannot be self policed. Back to the drawing board.

[Rararboker]

It is a real conundrum.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Rararboker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If people weren't pulling it to wtov it wouldn't be an issue. I was there in ntov when it all happened. That video only shows the door from iki side. Elament jumped up there when it was closed and couldn't see the mobs. No clue who opened it. But it isnt exactly prof either way as you couldn't see what was going on on the other side.

So you admit Elament jumped up there. Fantastic, why did Elament leave camp? He is now a puller because he is out of camp. Congratulations, your puller got FTE and brought Ikatair to camp, what is the problem? Oh, he brought two adds? Why did your puller train your camp? Oh, you weren't ready for the engage? Why did your puller have FTE if you were not ready to kill? These are all INTERNAL guild matters, why are you plastering them over the forums crying foul?

[Rararboker]

You seem to have a strenuous grasp of p99 rules and mechanics. Until those mobs made it back to their spawn points and reset, it was bda responsibility (since they were last fte before elament). It really isn't hard to figure out. Taken and rampage both concede and admit to wrong doing when they do this stuff. It is how things are handled in ntov.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do you monitor this? Do you know all of Rampage's third alts when they splinter to <Inglorious Cucumbers> to FIF Statue while Rampage stays in NTOV? I know I don't. So then I'm relying on CSR to do that, which if CSR was more involved, we wouldn't need this conversation about "don't train" because CSR would stop us for training. You want something that is self policing with rules that cannot be self policed. Back to the drawing board.

Well lets not forget reality. Rampage has how many physical people?

I don't know how many people it takes to actually knock down these targets reliably, there seems to be a fair bit of wiping up in NToV. Does it take 60? 70? If Rampage has 60 people holding FIF on Aary in NToV, do they really have another 50 to hold FIF on statue? Thats 110 people logged in, on raid chars, not on twinks or off in other zones farming loot. I don't think Rampage is that big. Maybe they are but I'd say probably not.

I don't think Rampage, or any guild, is large enough to fracture into two smaller guilds that can, independently of each other, tackle big Velious targets. And if they are, If they get NToV and Statue, BDA can take Tormax, Forsaken can take Lendi, so on and so on, Omni can take Lodi,

[JboxCSU]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do you monitor this? Do you know all of Rampage's third alts when they splinter to <Inglorious Cucumbers> to FIF Statue while Rampage stays in NTOV? I know I don't. So then I'm relying on CSR to do that, which if CSR was more involved, we wouldn't need this conversation about "don't train" because CSR would stop us for training. You want something that is self policing with rules that cannot be self policed. Back to the drawing board.

This confuses me - so since CSR is absent, guild are disobeying rules without recourse. So we must come up with rules that can be self policing...but that's the root of the problem, guilds are not self policing. So why have any rules?

I don't think you can dismiss FIF because it requires CSR support...anything minus complete fucking anarchy requires CSR support/enforcement.

[Juevento]

Using that insane logic (does Detoxx give you all advanced syphilis or some other malady that effects your mental capacities), then Elamant was responsible for the train once he had fte. Do you see why that fails to compute?

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Rararboker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You seem to have a strenuous grasp of p99 rules and mechanics. Until those mobs made it back to their spawn points and reset, it was bda responsibility (since they were last fte before elament). It really isn't hard to figure out. Taken and rampage both concede and admit to wrong doing when they do this stuff. It is how things are handled in ntov.

So because Taken pulls a mob from NTOV to WTOV, dies/FDs/COH/rezzes and BDA are next on FTE its now their train? Ikatair was still out of his room, initially moved by Taken. Why is it not Taken's train?

Let's look at this by removing BDA. If Chest/Relbaic had not FTE'd after Taken, Ikatair would still be out of lair due to a Taken pull, Elament would STILL be out of camp because he's an idiot, and Forgard would still have died to Ikatair and his adds. It was not BDA's train, it existed before BDA touched Ikatair. Elament still has not anti-train protections because he was an idiot mage out of camp.

Where does Forgard take responsibility for keeping their pullers from training their own raid and their raid members from not leaving camp?

[arsenalpow]

It wasn't a train, those mobs were happily pathing back.

Right now it seems like the most valid strat is to have a camp away from every other fuxking guild, and the second best strat is to stand in the middle of a freeway and demand concessions anytime a car clips you.

This game is stupid.