Discord Topics

[Tassador]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One loophole i could see is a character being invulnerable. So it lets people with lots of guildies be able to hoard loot in a bank mule by passing it to the mule toon somewhere hidden so he can run and bank afterwards. I dont really have a problem with that... if everyone gets to do it. So id close that loophole by making banks account-wide, if thats super easy to code. So even casuals/small crews can hoard some loot. At the same time it means a smaller amount of total space since you only have one bank for 8 characters. I dont know, thinking out loud.

I guess no protection anywhere... or maybe have a lvl range in noob zones

Can't wait to loot your corpse

[tedsternator]

Just have lvl 4 or 6 prot in newbie zones and have guards care about faction like on live, it doesn't add shit to the server to have lvl 1s getting butchered at bind and keeps people from rolling up new toons which is lame, more fresh meat is better than camping 10 hp decaying skeleton newbs.

Guard faction/assists is a Good Mechanic, there should be some limited protection offered by being in a town but it shouldn't be reliable/should be gameable, NPCs and faction are classic

[cronik]

Originally Posted by cronik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If xp is 500%, I'll seriously consider rerolling after the first painful death (5+ hrs surviving). If it's 2-300%, I won't even consider it... it'll be a one-shot deal and after the first "real" death I'll be done. I imagine this will be true of many.

On corpse rotting: lvl based, imo. if corpse is like 40+, I'd say turn off corpse rotting entirely. Someone could die either in a dungeon or to guards in some obscure location and someone else can stumble on the corpse 2 weeks later and it'd still be relevant. it's not like lvl 40s can generate a lot of corpses...

on lvl 1 immunity, it's a tough call. griefing will suck on either side of the coin. Maybe a timer on pre-lvl6 immunity, like 30m? It'd help prevent muling and crafting nonsense, amongst other things.

Quoting myself because it took two days for this to show up(mod approved!), and yet still posted two pages back.

If I had to pick right now, I'd go with noob-zone immunity for under 6, or even up to 9 (gives you at least a small chance to survive zoning away from starting areas). This place has too many bottom feeders who have their own definition of winning (xtreme griefing). I think the very rare possible abuses of immunity would pale in comparison to the starter areas/spawns being on lockdown an hour into the server if there's none. I'd rather a few peeps benefit from a mule bank since that affects almost nobody, in comparison to spawn-camping and griefing starting zones, which affects 90% of the population and WILL occur for the first week by people who have no interest besides playing the server start and griefing noobs in as assholish a manner as possible.

If there was no immunity I'd live with it and enjoy the server, but it'd be a HUGE deterrent to re-rolling much since there wouldn't be much point after the first few hours, at which point Jabober, Zoner, and Goner will rule the noob lands.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by cronik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This place has too many bottom feeders who have their own definition of winning (xtreme griefing). I think the very rare possible abuses of immunity would pale in comparison to the starter areas/spawns being on lockdown an hour into the server if there's none. I'd rather a few peeps benefit from a mule bank since that affects almost nobody, in comparison to spawn-camping and griefing starting zones, which affects 90% of the population and WILL occur for the first week by people who have no interest besides playing the server start and griefing noobs in as assholish a manner as possible.

If there was no immunity I'd live with it and enjoy the server, but it'd be a HUGE deterrent to re-rolling much since there wouldn't be much point after the first few hours, at which point Jabober, Zoner, and Goner will rule the noob lands.

Theres no way to stress this enough, it will happen, staff should understand this by now. Im not sure about the immunity thing, but people trying to lock down the noob zones either strategically or for lulz is a certainty. Were talking about a community that sits on a corpse for 20hours+ here right. I would think alot of people wouldnt be back for round2 of server wipe if first time around was that bad of an experience.

Originally Posted by cronik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If xp is 500%, I'll seriously consider rerolling after the first painful death (5+ hrs surviving). If it's 2-300%, I won't even consider it... it'll be a one-shot deal and after the first "real" death I'll be done. I imagine this will be true of many.

On corpse rotting: lvl based, imo. if corpse is like 40+, I'd say turn off corpse rotting entirely. Someone could die either in a dungeon or to guards in some obscure location and someone else can stumble on the corpse 2 weeks later and it'd still be relevant. it's not like lvl 40s can generate a lot of corpses...

on lvl 1 immunity, it's a tough call. griefing will suck on either side of the coin. Maybe a timer on pre-lvl6 immunity, like 30m? It'd help prevent muling and crafting nonsense, amongst other things.

All sensible stuff. I also think the pace of the game should feel similar to path of exile hardcore, people will die alot (in general those will be the new blood youd want kept around), it needs to be fun to play. That was the mistake of putting in the xp loss in pvp mechanic, its not fun to play. Itll depopulate the server. Of course fun means different things for different people, but you can either make it niche and griefy to please a small population of Chewie-like players, or make the appeal alot wider by easing down on the grief potential. Id say you should be able to reach 60 in a day (24 hours) or two or three. Or else the dominant crew will just get there before anyone else and dominate for 2 months. I dont have infused science, thats what i think right now, maybe theres something i didnt see, take it apart. Thats what i like this time around is we get to weight the pros and cons of server mechanics.

[Tradesonred]

When i mean its not fun to play, i mean that Its mainly not fun to play for people not in the dominant crews. Even the top 10% non-casuals of the server should get this. Your lulz have to be tempered with a population that needs to be there for you to have your lulz with. I know some people here will never care about this, but some of you vets can probably get around to thinking that having a population around is healthy, for your lulz.

[tedsternator]

While I agree 100% with the noob immunity and that contributing heavily toward the server health (no one worth a fuck is going to quit because they can't grief lvl 1s, but tons of people will quit because 10+ mages are roaming the lvl 1 areas murdering everyone), the idea that you should be able to hit 60 in a day or two is completely misguided.

You don't want leveling to be so easy that some idiot druid can poopsock for a day and then spend every waking moment porting around murdering all the lvl 15s with absolutely no hope of reprisal. Levels still need to be hard-won and there needs to be some tension to grinding and being able to max out trivially circumvents that process and just encourages mindless griefing.

The best part about Discord is that it creates tension between leveling and ganking. PvP is going to be most interesting when it involves contesting zones, ambushes over camps, or running into other crews in out-of-the-way locations. Without this the PvP is just a boring fragfest and may as well not be EQ.

[Gustoo]

camps dont matter only life matters. PVP will be a matter of hunting down potential threats.

yeah there should be some noob protection. Like maybe 1 or 2 hour spell that goes away if u leave noob areas.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by tedsternator [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I agree 100% with the noob immunity and that contributing heavily toward the server health (no one worth a fuck is going to quit because they can't grief lvl 1s, but tons of people will quit because 10+ mages are roaming the lvl 1 areas murdering everyone), the idea that you should be able to hit 60 in a day or two is completely misguided.

You don't want leveling to be so easy that some idiot druid can poopsock for a day and then spend every waking moment porting around murdering all the lvl 15s with absolutely no hope of reprisal. Levels still need to be hard-won and there needs to be some tension to grinding and being able to max out trivially circumvents that process and just encourages mindless griefing.

The best part about Discord is that it creates tension between leveling and ganking. PvP is going to be most interesting when it involves contesting zones, ambushes over camps, or running into other crews in out-of-the-way locations. Without this the PvP is just a boring fragfest and may as well not be EQ.

People are going to poopsock anyway and it will be the dominant crews that will reach 60 first. Wether that 60 ports around ganking you at 15 or 43 will not matter much. I think what matters is that people can dodge the 60s poopsockers till they reach a level where they can challenge them. That process needs to be balanced (AKA fast) enough so not only poopsockers can muster the strenght to do it, especially if they die 2,3,4,5 times. And it needs to not be harsh enough that rerolling isnt an option. Because people will die to the dominant crews. Alot.

I see similar strains between what youre saying and people who were argumenting back then that if xp loss in pvp is removed, it cheapens the whole deal. Thats its just like Call of duty. It might be that it makes it more casual. But to me, theyre just different, not cheapened. What happens if the penalty for dying is too harsh? People quit. Theyre not more careful the next time around, they wont be doing ambushes over camps, it does not create more tension because you need players to have tension. They just quit. Youll have tension anyway if the death isnt crazy (just as you still had some when they removed xp loss), maybe just not "OMFG BREAKING MY CHAIR ON MY WALL THE NEIGHBOORS ARE CALLING THE POLICE" tension from the only elf sims hardcore who could take that kind of punishment and go right back on the horse.

If it takes a week for a semi-casual to get to level 35, so that the dominant crews roam around and kill everyone they see for a day straight when they get to 49, who the hell is going to start over after that? An insignificant amount of players, i would guess. So the server winners will be known after 2 weeks basically and well have to wait a month and a half for the server to reset. It is also likely that you will have lost some of these players forever, because the experience left a bad taste in their mouths, since it was so harsh.

Again this is just like getting ganked over and over 10v2 by the holocaust crew at red's beginning and accumulating PVE grind backlog. We drained a fuckload of players until xp loss was removed. I think its a valid analogy concerning what could happen if the penalty is too harsh for dying on discord.

Im on the same boat with that guy that says hell try one time and then quit if xp is only 200-300%. Thinking this through, what is the xp rate on a full group on red? like 450%? 500% feels not quite fast enough to me, thats an understatement. My take would be to make this a path of exile version of discord (in that i mean the speed at which you can plow through content), instead of classic discord.
Its not something to get pissed off about like i did on red sometimes, because there isnt a huge deal of my time invested in this, but the outcome is predictable. Server on lock down after 2 weeks and huge population drain until next reset, which likely will see alot less people rerolling. A faster xp server will be more fun for 90% of the pop, people will reroll if they die, actual pvp will take place, dominant crews get their lulz anyway, fun times all around, win-win.

What would be the bonus on discord, full % no matter what your group composition is? That is probably a good idea because some new people will probably fuck around solo a bit first.

Please continue the discussion, this constructive back and forth feels unreal on these forums.

[Tradesonred]

Keep in mind that im not that familiar with how the bonus xp is split exactly. To express it better, i would say that leveling solo on discord should be much, much faster than a good full group pulling non-stop on red. Solo is especially important on discord because alot of people will become detached from their crews (like a group of 40s losing 2 of their 6 members to a 60s blitzkrieg) and unwilling to group with randoms they dont trust when they get back to level 1.

[Gustoo]

Solo is going to be very difficult. Too easy to be killed.