TOV - Pulling Mobs to ENT

[Daldaen]

I guarantee you I can set up a pull of any west, east, or the entry 3 in NToV faster than you can CotH a 40 man raid to engage them.

That being said, there will be other areas this is a problem. Like say... Pulling Zlandicar out of his lair to entrance of first floor area using completely broken pathing. Or basically all the Kael mobs because of the nature of FTE.

But again - Petitions will fly and rules will be handed down as we go because no one wanted to sort things out in advance.

[Sampten]

Pulling to the zone in disrupts the zone. Furthermore, it will most likely get anybody zoning in killed due to the AEs and being ill prepared.

Personally, I would say that because of the zone disruption, pulling to the zone in is going to be a no go.

In addition, while there is no C/FFA/R rotation system in place, in the event there is one, it would tag incorrect guilds on that agro list and lock people out when it shouldn't.

Petitions will fly, guilds will get suspended. I think the "common sense" approach is not to pull to anything to a zone in that has any sort of AE.

[Daldaen]

Then the issue becomes, where can they be pulled? Like... Just before zone in so that a player who zoned in won't get AE'd, but still nearby? Only within their respective wings? Must be fought where they stand?

I definitely agree pulling to zone in disrupts the zone. ESPECIALLY in the case of Kael and Dragon Necropolis, since random groups will be everywhere. ToV I feel you but that's a raid zone and stupid shit is expected in raid zones - see VP for what stupid shit to expect. Plus there won't be random groups hanging around in ToV. If anything they'll be roaming HoT and WToV where no one will really train.

If you don't allow raid mobs to be pulled to zones - that's fine. That certainly doesn't mean there won't be zone disrupting trains. You must be joking if you think people will clear to LTK or CoTH for 10 minutes. They will aggro trash and train it away, if pulling LTK himself is not allowed.

Imagine if VP you were not permitted to pull the dragons much past their room/pathing nodes. Trains would just get created to move aside the trash and the raid will follow behind. I guarantee it.

But... I've said all I can say on this topic. Just expect every guild to petition every other guilds kill spots and trains generated.

[Man0warr]

Yeah the best way to pull Vindi/Statue/Tormax is huge trains towards EW or Arena - but if there are going to be groups in Arena farming armor (and there will be, 24/7) that is not going to fly.

[Nirgon]

How about get out of the way for 5 minutes

[Man0warr]

XP groups have no incentive to do that - especially if you are part of a rival guild. "Train me and your getting petition quested", is what's going to happen.

GMs will side with the groups who were there exping (sort of like Chardok, if players actually wanted to build non AE exp groups). Right now the only acceptable places to train are VP and the Planes.

[Sampten]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then the issue becomes, where can they be pulled? Like... Just before zone in so that a player who zoned in won't get AE'd, but still nearby? Only within their respective wings? Must be fought where they stand?

I definitely agree pulling to zone in disrupts the zone. ESPECIALLY in the case of Kael and Dragon Necropolis, since random groups will be everywhere. ToV I feel you but that's a raid zone and stupid shit is expected in raid zones - see VP for what stupid shit to expect. Plus there won't be random groups hanging around in ToV. If anything they'll be roaming HoT and WToV where no one will really train.

If you don't allow raid mobs to be pulled to zones - that's fine. That certainly doesn't mean there won't be zone disrupting trains. You must be joking if you think people will clear to LTK or CoTH for 10 minutes. They will aggro trash and train it away, if pulling LTK himself is not allowed.

Imagine if VP you were not permitted to pull the dragons much past their room/pathing nodes. Trains would just get created to move aside the trash and the raid will follow behind. I guarantee it.

But... I've said all I can say on this topic. Just expect every guild to petition every other guilds kill spots and trains generated.

Well in obvious situations, Zlandicar can be fought where he spawns. This avoids that situation in DN. NToV dragons can be fought where they spawn. Will guilds need to clear trash? Yeah, because they can't just train stuff off on top of others. It'll be interesting to see how that sorts itself out though.

I'm not sure I see a situation where pulling any mob that casts an AE to the zone line will be allowed, nor will training/pulling over groups hunting for experience....especially when they would be in the zone before a raid force anyhow.

You could also fight KT/Vindi/Statue/AOW etc. where they spawn, and maybe that's what will ultimately be required. For NToV Dragons and such, you'd have to fight them where they spawn.

In reality it'll all fall under play nice and zone disruption is not 'play nice'. I think people are going to need to think before doing it, or come up with other means of engaging.

If the GMs stick to the policy of progressively harsher sentences for violations, guilds are going to need to think twice about how they go about engaging raid mobs.

[Daldaen]

It avoids the situation, yes. But it won't be done like that until a guild is petitioned and a GM rules as such. Until then guilds will exploit his warping through walls and pull him to entrance or first floor single because that's the path of least resistance.

Everything could be fought at its spawn but that greatly increases the difficulty and more importantly requires trash clears as you mention. This server doesn't like trash clears. Reason being there is no claim to the mob until an FTE message is given.

Clearing the 2 drakes before Aaryonar should constitute a 20min engage timer you have like turning in a Ragefire Pearl. But instead, it's only FTE that matters. As such, guilds will resort to training or if that's not allowed leapfrogging other guilds as they clear trash. There are a lot of examples of this.

Clearing Aary should give you access to NToV so long as you are clearing dragons and not wiping. Like every 15-20min you have to kill another dragon or your claim to the area is void and another guild can contest a mob. But what will happen is 1 guild will clear Aary then another will snipe Feshlak or Dagarn, and they'll herp deep over each other's pulls and kills.

Tl;dr - Pull locations will be determined legit by petitions and the FTE system could use a revamp unless you wish to deal with trains. Mobs are no longer dying in 1min. Trash clears are necessary and killing certain trash should stake a claim to a mob just like an FTE should. This would reduce herpderp pulling, leapfrogging and kiting trains.

[Sampten]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything could be fought at its spawn but that greatly increases the difficulty and more importantly requires trash clears as you mention. This server doesn't like trash clears. Reason being there is no claim to the mob until an FTE message is given.

I mean, it's kinda tough luck there then, isn't it? I mean, not to sound harsh or anything but so what?

You're basically saying "hey that may be hard so I want to disrupt a zone so it's easier".

That argument probably isn't going to fly. Then again, I can't speak on behalf of the GMs. Maybe they're totally fine with people being trained on, zone disruption, etc. Ultimately it's their call.

It's the case of buyer beware. If you're worried about petitions and raid bans, then you need to weigh the decision to pull over people and/or pull to zone-ins. That becomes the decision of the guild, and the raid leader. Both the guild/raid leader need to be aware that there could very well be consequences to those decisions and accept that.

The other solution is for all the major guilds to agree to certain terms/play nice sort of policy, so not to have to get into the lawyer-quest petition-quest, etc. I'm not sure the server politics here and the hostile animosity between guilds would ultimately yield a compromise/solution, but this is stuff that should have been worked out long prior to now. Honestly, it's unfortunate.

It will be interesting to see how GMs react. It will also be interesting to see how many bans get handed down and how quickly and what the punishments are.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It avoids the situation, yes. But it won't be done like that until a guild is petitioned and a GM rules as such. Until then guilds will exploit his warping through walls and pull him to entrance or first floor single because that's the path of least resistance.

Everything could be fought at its spawn but that greatly increases the difficulty and more importantly requires trash clears as you mention. This server doesn't like trash clears. Reason being there is no claim to the mob until an FTE message is given.

Clearing the 2 drakes before Aaryonar should constitute a 20min engage timer you have like turning in a Ragefire Pearl. But instead, it's only FTE that matters. As such, guilds will resort to training or if that's not allowed leapfrogging other guilds as they clear trash. There are a lot of examples of this.

Clearing Aary should give you access to NToV so long as you are clearing dragons and not wiping. Like every 15-20min you have to kill another dragon or your claim to the area is void and another guild can contest a mob. But what will happen is 1 guild will clear Aary then another will snipe Feshlak or Dagarn, and they'll herp deep over each other's pulls and kills.

Tl;dr - Pull locations will be determined legit by petitions and the FTE system could use a revamp unless you wish to deal with trains. Mobs are no longer dying in 1min. Trash clears are necessary and killing certain trash should stake a claim to a mob just like an FTE should. This would reduce herpderp pulling, leapfrogging and kiting trains.

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