Hey Forsaken

[Samoht]

No, you're just arguing about how they worded it vs what they intended to say and what you know they intended to say because that's a convenient way for you to discredit them even though it does nothing to progress the discussion. The Foreskin raids were at least 93% former TMO members. It has been proven. Let's just move forward with that knowledge instead of harping on how someone might have said that Foreskin is 93%TMO members and you interpreted that as Foreskin is 93% of TMO members.

[Llodd]

Some people are overly obsessed by logic to the point where all common sense is lost.

[cs616]

Moving on is fine with me, just dont get pissy because I called out an exaggerated percentage for being exaggerated (which is was with how it was worded). Unlike our rule system on this server, I make my judgments on what is actually said and done as opposed to what I think someone's intention is or was.

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Q17: How can a guild move from Class C, back to Class R?
A: If a Class C guild does not get a Class C kill for 30 days, then that guild can request that the staff place them back inside Class R. This request will be reviewed and then decided by the staff on a case by case basis.

The guild was not Class C is the point. The guild had cleared 0 targets at that point.

TMO is class C

The players that made up the guild were almost without exception class C raiders from the same class C guild including that guild's raid leader and with at least partial access to that class C's guild assets and was in fact using a member from that Class C guild as its FTEer during the window, a time frame in which that member never left position.

Is your argument that this does not matter? If that is the case, what is stopping any class C guild from splitting off half its roster (even alts) every time a class R mob is going in window and reabsorbing them afterwards? Would you consider that okay as well?

The players matter. Examination of the players by Rogean left no doubt that the guild WAS class C regardless of their attempts at semantics (FWIW if Forsaken is fighting this ruling anywhere but here they're doing a good job of keeping it quiet, an example you should really start following) because of the context of the PLAYERS involved.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is your argument that this does not matter? If that is the case, what is stopping any class C guild from splitting off half its roster (even alts) every time a class R mob is going in window and reabsorbing them afterwards? Would you consider that okay as well?

How is this even a similar situation? Has TMO reabsorbed Forsaken or do they have plans to?

[Faron]

Do you ever shut up?

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is this even a similar situation? Has TMO reabsorbed Forsaken or do they have plans to?

Now you're claiming the GMs have to have foresight of what the intentions of a guild's players are? The situation is EXACTLY the same, one step further. So please answer the question: should it be okay for guilds to split off members into a new guild to take class R mobs? If so, then, well, we don't really have any common basis for discussing that because I would consider that opinion pants on head retarded. If not, then you admit your standards require the GM have foreknowledge of a guild's intentions. And no matter whether or not you agree or disagree, you have no answer to the fact the guild was composed almost entirely of members and leaders of one other class C guild without any reason to treat them differently except they had a different name.

[Samoht]

I think we should all have cascading sister, child, splinter guilds so that we can circumvent all class divisions and lockouts. In TMO today, Foreskin tomorrow, then Taken, BDA, and back to TMO for VP repops on Monday. It's not against the rules because the lockouts follow the guilds.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now you're claiming the GMs have to have foresight of what the intentions of a guild's players are? The situation is EXACTLY the same, one step further. So please answer the question: should it be okay for guilds to split off members into a new guild to take class R mobs? If so, then, well, we don't really have any common basis for discussing that because I would consider that opinion pants on head retarded. If not, then you admit your standards require the GM have foreknowledge of a guild's intentions. And no matter whether or not you agree or disagree, you have no answer to the fact the guild was composed almost entirely of members and leaders of one other class C guild without any reason to treat them differently except they had a different name.

No I am claiming that they don't need punish BEFORE something happens. The situations aren't the same. No punishment needed until Forsaken tried to re-enter TMO.

[Mistle]

The punishment is for players of a class C guild killing a class R target, not for re-entering the guild afterwards.

As Rogean indicated, when essentially all the players are from a class C guild, they will continue to be considered class C even if they splinter off, so that situations like the one I put to you cannot happen. As Rogean said,

Originally Posted by Rogean

You can not simply reform your guild to change classes.

The example I gave simply serves to illustrate the problems of your interpretation of the rules.