PnP Rules - Changes or Removal Necessary - GMs Please Read

[SamwiseRed]

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Despite having gone over this in two other threads, here goes.

Bottom line is: without a PnP, this server becomes a desert, but with the same PnP we have now, no meaningful PvP happens out of the fear that we'll be banned.

The main problem is that GMs are forced to be way too hands on (and contrary to what it may seem, GMs badly want us to settle our differences amongst ourselves). Unfortunately, no guild leaders really talk to one another about agreements in PvP, so the GMs are being pushed into enforcing a set of rules we should be policing on our own.

No one wants to be the guy to take the first step and be nice to an opposing guild on this server. It's not because we genuinely hate each other, it's just a dumb us versus them culture where the underdogs and the people on top both take their allegiances/ dislikes to heart. And that's fine, but it requires an end to that if anyone wants to see a real change in the rules.

Rules need to be unanimously agreed upon, player enforced and respected by everyone. If they're not respected, people need to be ostracized or punished for it. This solves frivolous petitioning by people who use LNS as a weapon, and it also solves the issue of people being punished brutally over minor infractions.

That's just for small scale LNS.

Force LNS is a whole other beast, and it also needs a huge change. We need to implement some sort of risk for losing and reward for winning. It's the dumbest thing to allow an entire guild that lost in mass PvP to LNS before a winning guild can recuperate and take the mob that was contested over.

The two proposed ideas to solve this issue once Force LNS is called by a guild:

1) The losing guild suffers a specified lockout time from the contested zones
2) The losing guild suffers a lockout from contested zones until the defending/ winning guild leaves

The third, less popular idea:

3) get camped until the defending/ winning guild gets bored and leaves

These are all ideas that bear in mind an agreement between the two (or more) contesting guilds hasn't been met before Force LNS is called.

Other ideas:

A LNS tag hard-coded in (easily exploited)
Don't kill naked people (not going to happen, and not always a good idea)

I think people should feel more inclined to bind rush in mass PvP and fight their hearts out for hours (i.e play with a more red mindset). Those are the fights people looked back on from live and remember. The fight over Emperor Ssraezha against Pandemonium, for instance, was absolute insanity.

I don't know if everyone feels the same way, but I feel like creating stronger risks and rewards in mass PvP naturally forces each side to commit, which will make fights drag out for hours (like how they should). The fights may happen less, surely, but when they do happen, they'll be far more fun.

Force LNS after an one death is not mass PvP. It's uneventful plugquest.

If every guild agrees on the way LNS should go, we have every opportunity to change the rules the way we want. It just has to be run by players, and it has to be convincing enough to GMs that we actually possess the skills to adequately enforce it.

tl dr

pnp = more pop
stop being assholes

[Raijiin]

I agree something with pnp needs to change. Currently I'm suspended for attacking a geared reebz in Karnors. I was completely unaware he was on loot and scoot. Apparently it was my responsibility to watch /ooc like a hawk. Reebz did not notify me in any way that he was on lns. I guess he needed more time to get back that rogue mana at the zone in before scooting?

Currently I'm debating if PvP is even worth it on red. I am honestly afraid to attack anyone geared or naked in fear of eating another bullshit suspension.

In this situation PnP is turning a red player blue. Do I need to ask every geared player if they are on lns to be safe? Do I need to wait for them to attack first to ensure I don't get suspended for engaging in PvP on a PvP server? Also this guilty until proven innocent crap with suspensions is horrible. Every time you get a 3 word reaponse your petition immediately gets sent to the resolved section.

[Fang]

Reebz used to be a decent person but apparently he's turned into a huge piece of shit.

[Raijiin]

Originally Posted by ducktv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You ruthled?

Honest question. Why would you even bother petitioning me for attacking you while you were geared hanging out at the zone in after you had already looted your corpse? All trolling aside. This is an honest question.

[ducktv]

Originally Posted by Raijiin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honest question. Why would you even bother petitioning me for attacking you while you were geared hanging out at the zone in after you had already looted your corpse? All trolling aside. This is an honest question.

I called LNS probably 6 or 7 times in OOC. I'm actually pretty sure one of your guildies told me to shut up for saying it so many times. I looted, and as I was waiting for a guildmate to evacuate me, you came in and started casting. I said LNS in say to you multiple times, pre-engage. You didn't seem to care or bother stopping. After I cured and pumiced all of your shit, you resulted to lifetapping me. so I didn't want to die to that bullshit so I called off my guildmate and skedaddled to Nurga to get an evac from there instead.

EDIT: In all honesty I thought you were just being a piece of shit, glad you rolled a rogue though so I can completely destroy you when you get in range. :]

[Uuruk]

Originally Posted by ducktv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I called LNS probably 6 or 7 times in OOC. I'm actually pretty sure one of your guildies told me to shut up for saying it so many times. I looted, and as I was waiting for a guildmate to evacuate me, you came in and started casting. I said LNS in say to you multiple times, pre-engage. You didn't seem to care or bother stopping. After I cured and pumiced all of your shit, you resulted to lifetapping me. so I didn't want to die to that bullshit so I called off my guildmate and skedaddled to Nurga to get an evac from there instead.

EDIT: In all honesty I thought you were just being a piece of shit, glad you rolled a rogue though so I can completely destroy you when you get in range. :]

You ruthled?

[ducktv]

Originally Posted by Uuruk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You ruthled?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
8)

[Buhbuh]

Originally Posted by ducktv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so I didn't want to die to that bullshit so I called off my guildmate and skedaddled to Nurga to get an evac from there instead.

you realize that this should have been your only response?

when you LNS, you actually do it in a timely manner. not wait for your pal to get you where you want to go. loot. leave. 15 seconds.

you have absolutely no right to sit there for longer than it takes to loot and zone and/ or gate.

[Widan]

Originally Posted by ducktv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as I was waiting for a guildmate to evacuate me

This is in violation of the LNS policy and you should be suspended. Get out of the zone next time.

[Colgate]

being on LNS doesn't entitle you to wait for whatever arbitrary reason that you choose

the only time you're allowed to sit there and wait for help is when you literally have no way out of the zone on your own

last time i checked, a rogue doesn't need to wait on a porter to walk 3 feet into the zoneline and into dreadlands