Class defining epic

[citizen1080]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is definitely wrong and silly, Cecily.

Ok guys here, if you change the shaman epic to provide a slow instead of what it does now, you'd see 100% less shamans than you do now.

Ergo the class is defined by its epic.

uh...

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

uh...

yeah, i have no idea what he's talking about or where he's going with this. there's a class that can already solo without their epic, and their epic allows them to solo slightly more efficiently after level 50, and that alone makes it more class defining than other epics.

i think that deserves a solid 10th out of 14 on my list. if the only requirement is that it lets you solo easier the druid epic alone beats the shaman epic, lol.

[Loke]

DPS is never negligible when raiding. In a group, maybe, especially if it detracts from doing other things, but for a bard on a raid, the 20-25 dps you can get from melee still counts towards the total damage to the mob. 25 dps is 1500 damage a minute. That is comparable to pally dps. In fact, I used to routinely rate my dps on raids based on whether or not i out dps'd corova (a low bar, i know, but i needed a metric of some sort).

Additionally, the 30 atk from epic, plus the 25 from modded mcvaxius is 55 to the entire group, which is super significant. Plus higher DS, resists, and doing melee dps.... it is an aggregate effect. You can just single out one thing that improves with the bard epic, because bards arent a class that is about doing one thing well. Bards do everything okay, and their epic gives them more options to do almost everything better. You cant just do a point to point comparison because you have to factor in everything. Sure, drums might give you more resist overall, but to get that yourr sacrificing MR from psalm (most important resist by far), atk from mcvaxius, and 25ish dps. For you econ majors out there, it is all about opportunity cost, and epic completely changes the landscape of your next best option.

Also, try fear kiting without epic, that alone highlights the type of playstyles that epic opens up. I can chain fear, snare and stack dots, all while meleeing, which would be basically impossible without epic. Given that is a minor utility with limited uses, but just one example of how bard epic opens up new options.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bards do everything okay, and their epic gives them more options to do almost everything better.

and this my friend is why it's the #1 class defining epic

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and this my friend is why it's the #1 class defining epic

Style points too, since bards are all about style [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

9. Druid - a dot click for soloing with a snare component

14. Necromancer - it's a free snare/dot, but they already get snare/dots and it does not stack with root

Druid epic is the most useless atm. It's snare component makes it mutually exclusive with root. Ensuring that a druid will never get more than 66% of the dot's damage without another person keeping the npc still/fearing. A Necro can at least fear after using their snare/dot epic and get 100% dmg without another player being present. Now after velious root/snare stacking changes, that's a different story. But until then, the druid epic is the biggest piece of garbage.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

too rare. and slower than RB.

Gunthak Harpoon too clunky. and slower than RB.

the other two are actually better than RB but are velious raid drops.

Who the hell cares if it's 15 damage? BS is only a portion of their damage, so there are better main hand, offhand, and mainhand/offhand combos in terms of raw dps (read: what rogues care about). It's not class defining

[Vorkon]

While you could probably make a case for epics on an individual scale, it makes more sense to do a tierlist type thing, where Cleric/Bard/Rogue are the top 3 regardless of order.

I always felt that the effort that went into the Warrior Epic was overwhelming for what you got, due to the live timeline of expansion releases, It felt that 3-4 months into Velious, I had replaced mine with something else, Primals/Kierzens Flame/Blade of carnage/ntov 2handers. I still used the Blade of Strat for a while (proc), but this too was eventually banked. I felt that some of the other classes epics had a far greater shelf/usefulness timeline.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah, i have no idea what he's talking about or where he's going with this. there's a class that can already solo without their epic, and their epic allows them to solo slightly more efficiently after level 50, and that alone makes it more class defining than other epics.

i think that deserves a solid 10th out of 14 on my list. if the only requirement is that it lets you solo easier the druid epic alone beats the shaman epic, lol.

disagree. A shaman simply cannot do what he can with his epic.

however some people only think about lvl 60 best in slot as the only factor that matters about anything.. so without a doubt a lvl 60 shaman with bis gear doesnt even need an epic anymore.

But leveling a shaman with an epic vs leveling a shama without an epic is as different as leveling a shaman vs leveling a mage or some other class.. so to me that is class defining because it drastically changes what you do with the class.

but whatever ive never played a bard with an epic.

I just disagree with yall and thats it

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

disagree. A shaman simply cannot do what he can with his epic.

wait, shaman epic is a raid buff now?

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But leveling a shaman with an epic vs leveling a shama without an epic is as different as leveling a shaman vs leveling a mage

no not really considering levelling a mage with epic pet would probably be more sweet than levelling a shaman with epic dot