Wizard vs Magician epic

[Nefarum]

Both the wizard and mage epics are pretty hard to get. In Velious the main bottleneck for the wizard epic (Venril Sathir) doesn't change, so I'd say the wizard one is a bit harder to obtain.

It's possible to get them, but you'll need to join a top raiding guild to do so.

[skootr]

I'd rank both epics pretty important to the classes. 800hp rune +3 mana regen that stacks with every other mana regen is pretty sweet with how mana dependent wizards are to be of any use. Manastone makes it crazy good, but that is only in old world zones. If I recall correctly Manarobe cast time isn't the best so was not worth using until mounts came out and you could med/cast.

[Nefarum]

Originally Posted by skootr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I recall correctly Manarobe cast time isn't the best so was not worth using until mounts came out and you could med/cast.

You can get off exactly one manna robe cast between server ticks, so sit, cast, sit is faster than just meditating.

[dafier]

Again I did both Mage epics in Velious time frame. It wasn't too difficult. Bottle necks were Water and Earth staff. They literally had me waiting for weeks if not months. The pay off was well worth it.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Nefarum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Both the wizard and mage epics are pretty hard to get. In Velious the main bottleneck for the wizard epic (Venril Sathir) doesn't change, so I'd say the wizard one is a bit harder to obtain.

It's possible to get them, but you'll need to join a top raiding guild to do so.

VS becomes a 3 day spawn on April 17, 2001.

[Nefarum]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VS becomes a 3 day spawn on April 17, 2001.

Interesting.

[wycca]

Originally Posted by nuuki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks guys for the response.

So both are super hard even if I played until 60 and joined a guild? Is the epic only available to just a select few people?

wycca would that make the magician epic much easier or are there other bottlenecks too?

And how come you say wizard doesn't really need the epic? It seems pretty great to me, or is it not?

PoHate/Fear revamp - 3-14-01 - (Mage staff moves to Magi+regular Revs, CT skin eliminated)
VS timer adjustment - 4-17-01 -

Mage epic - Lots of various parts. On P99 Quillimaine is no big secret. Additionally, you can buy the PoSky Isle 7 piece. Phinny isn't actually too hard, he can be duo'd with a 55+ mage and a 49+ mage or necro np. This leaves the PoHate staff. Right now Inny is a 7day spawn and is a hot target. As mentioned above, he moves to a 72hr (with 12hr variance) mini-boss who is level 55 (can likely be solo'd, at least duo'd np). There's some evidence that, at start, Magi was on an 8hr timer. Additionally, the regular male revs have about a 2% chance to drop the staff as well.

Wiz epic - Major parts are - Tola powder, Phinny Staff, CT Skin, and VS staff. The tola powder is tougher to get than the Phinny staff (which as mentioned above, can be duo'd by the right classes). Not a huge block though. CT is super sought after and is arguably harder to kill than Inny by guilds. Additionally, VS is probably the most contested mob in the game - with the largest # of guilds competing for him and the fastest engage times. Even with the skin eliminated, and VS going to 3 days, its still a harder epic (in terms of mob difficulty/competition) than the Mage one with more competition.

As far as epic value, there are alot less Mages than Wizards on the raid scene. Nevertheless, the Mage epic, especially given that we will never see PoP, is the best epic in the game. The epic pet is such a huge upgrade. For a wizard, you have Manaskin available. Sure it costs mana and dots, but it provides a similar rune and 2 mana regen. This is hardly game changing for the class by itself - nice to be sure, but not game changing. It's much nicer when you start combining it with a Manna Robe or Manastone. However, they both are expensive and have various limitations. Manastone cannot be used in Kunark or Velious or the Planes, and the Manna Robe has a cast time - you can zone for the stone, or do the sit/stand/cast dance on the Robe, then click your epic (or diamond rod) for some mana regen. This is not a short or hassle-free ritual. At that point, you'd start to wonder if it may not just be better in many circumstances to not spend the mana in the first place and have to screw with it, and to instead use a clicky robe. If you're already talking Manastone or Manna Robe or Inny or CT or VS, then you also have to consider the Rend Robe, Hoshkar Staff, Velk Robe, Inny wand, etc. Rend robe is 55dps, Hoshkar staff is a 30dps lure, Velk robe is 40dps, etc with no sitting/clicking/zoning/etc. Sunstrike (most mana efficient wiz nuke) is 230dps over it's 7sec cast, but it costs 405mana after spec - ~14 manastone/robe clickies per epic click = 280 mana, so you'll need at least 2 epic clicks. That's 30sec there, plus you can't spam manastone (and manna robe is 3sec), but ignoring all of that, Sunstrike, with 37sec (7sec cast+30sec of epic clicking) is now down to 43.6dps. While wizards mana regen doesn't just apply to their nukes, it is the main focus of their mana regen. By the time you add in click delay for manastone (and or zoning to an old zone), plus you add in sit/cast for manna robe...the epic isn't so hot when it comes to dps boosts - it's in a class with at least 3 other items. The mana-free and reagent-free rune is pretty great, but...how much of an impact vs. Manaskin, Diamond Rod, etc? An epic mage is defined by their epic...whereas an epic wizard - I don't think there is a huge difference between a non-epic, assuming you're comparing the entire raid scene's loot choices. There is a reason that the wiz epic is something I've passed on more than once.

In the end, Wizards gain less with their epic than Mages do and, IMO, have some decent alternative arrangements that provide much of the same perks.

One last note, the Wiz epic requires 3 seperate staffs. Each of which have some pretty great stats, specifically resists. In fact, the Wiz epic is the only one where the items turned in, combined, have better stats than the final epic. On any fight that requires MR, PR, FR/CR - there's a good chance you're going to not be using your epic and instead are going to be using the Tola or Phinny staffs for the resists. In this area, the wiz epic is also weaker than the mage epic IMO (which is both a pet AND a primary item).

In the end, the wiz epic is a slightly better mana-free Manaskin. You don't NEED it as a wizard because there's other things you can get which provide or circumvent the benefit it theoretically provides. The mage epic, has no such similar limitations.

TL[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]R - Mage epic will eventually be a ~3day bottleneck on a mob that can likely be duo'd or a 12hr respawn on another mob that can be duo'd plus a bunch of camping you can do soloish. That in no way compares to the wiz epic, which is undoubtedly harder and with more competitive mobs. There is no real comparison to the Mage epic, which defines a Mage, with the Wizard epic, whose utility is diminished by a plethora of raid alternatives. Mage epic = easier and defining, Wiz epic = harder and value diminished by presence of Manaskin+other items (ie not class defining).

[nuuki]

Wow that's amazing, thank you.

How good truly is the mage epic pet? I understand some of the hardest solo content is in the Howling Stones zone and it seems only Necro/Enc/Shaman can solo in there. Would an epic mage be able to do so, as well?

[falkun]

Originally Posted by wycca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nevertheless, the Mage epic, especially given that we will never see PoP, is the best epic in the game.

Clerics and bards would like to have a word with you. Cleric epic never gets banked. Ever. And bards were using their epics until instrument mods started getting added to other gear in the EPs of PoP.

[Velerin]

1 vs. 1 the mage epic is a beast, esp for things that can be stunned. He has a ton of hp (4k unbuffed) and 50 point self DS. Adds still kick his ass since mages have no cc other than root nets however so you can't really solo HS, seb, etc. without burning a lot of nets to split a camp.