Game Mechanics: Endurance

[Smashed]

I also wouldn't getting some confirmation that at over 100 stamina, this slowdown no longer occurs? like on live?

[Lenowin]

This seems to be a signifigant problem on my alt monk as well. He runs out real quick, and it takes quite a while to regenerate it back to 100%.

[stormlord]

Having looked through some allah pages for different 2 handers, I'd say that 15wt is when players are going to need songs/spells to recover stamina at a respectable rate without having to repeatedly rest to recover it. This is the way it was in at least 2001, but I am not sure how it was in 1999. Anything below 15wt will decrease it, but the pace will be so slow that you'll make up most or all of it when you sit down to regain mana or hitpoints. It should scale too. A weapon that weighs 8 should require more stamina than a weapon that weighs 6, and this also applies to something that weighs 15 as opposed to something that weighs 12.

I know that in at last 2001 you did not suffer stat or attack rate penalties until you were out of stamina, and then only if you had < 100 stamina (the stat). So suffering penalties at 50% seems wrong, but I could be in error.

Whatever changes you make, be sure to not make the stamina heal spells useless. Make us consider the weight of a weapon when we buy it in regards to how much stamina it's using. Anyting else wouldn't be classic.

[Danth]

"It should scale too. A weapon that weighs 8 should require more stamina than a weapon that weighs 6"

At least on a non dual-wield class, neither of these hypothetical weapons should even make the yellow bar budge. I know this is a mere example, and you could easily change the numbers to something more accurate (say, a 10 weight weapon requires less stamina than a 12.5 weight weapon), but I point that out so as to prevent any confusion about how things should be.

I must reiterate that on Live spells such as invigor WERE regarded as worthless the majority of the time--there were only a relative handful of overweight weapons (I listed a few above) which could cause problems.

Danth

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"It should scale too. A weapon that weighs 8 should require more stamina than a weapon that weighs 6"

At least on a non dual-wield class, neither of these hypothetical weapons should even make the yellow bar budge. I know this is a mere example, and you could easily change the numbers to something more accurate (say, a 10 weight weapon requires less stamina than a 12.5 weight weapon), but I point that out so as to prevent any confusion about how things should be.

I must reiterate that on Live spells such as invigor WERE regarded as worthless the majority of the time--there were only a relative handful of overweight weapons (I listed a few above) which could cause problems.

Danth

What I was saying is that the formula should make sense. I agree that a weapon that weighs 7 will use very little stamina, but it should use some. It'll use so little though that you won't notice. I wasn't trying to say that weapons that're lightweight should cripple you and make you rest every 3 minutes. I was just saying that the formula should scale.

I browsed allah and some other caster sites and by what I could see.. stamina heal/regen spells were not worthless at all. This is especially true for dual wielding classes that were using big weapons like the wurmslayer, but it's true for even 2 handers that weigh 15 - they would eat up stamina (albeit slowly, but noticeable). I gave the 15 wt number because I saw it on several allah pages for 2001/02/03. Doesn't matter whether it was 1h or 2h.

Here's one example of an allah page:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=432

april 2002:

23/48 is still decent for a warrior, 2 less dam than an exec axe but also 2 less delay. The hideous 15.0wt will drag that yellow bar straight down though, but the proc IS a useful one. The one on the PGT saved my warrior's butt plenty of times in those younger days...

Here's another one:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=12629

december 2002:

Only complaint I have is that it is heavy. My STAM gets drained, but as a pally, Invigor keeps me swinging without downtime. I love this weapon.

Another:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4500

jan 2001:

well the more the weapon weighs the faster your stamina is drained. A weapon like this would drain your stamina like crazy in a fight cause its fast and heavy.

True, but doesnt do you harm..
Only if you equip it on a low or mid level twink that isn't grouped with an enchanter and doesnt have invigor...

i think the more stam you have the less this is a problem. I have a level 19 sk troll I've been screwing with and it has most weapons on it which are weight 10 - 15. Its sta never goes down much really at all in a fight. Of course Its sta is pretty darn high also, I think at like 140 with a couple of crustacean shell armor pieces and some other stuff.

This would be a larger concern for dual wielding classes also. I'd bet especially a ranger can get fatigued fast with a couple heavy weapons.

Augment (lvl 29) has good Sta regen, a Bard has sta songs, Rangers and others have Invigorize spells, etc etc. My 51 Ranger often fights with WS (15lbs), has 30% haste cloak plus Swift or AQ (Speed buffs) from the Ench u usually have in group at that level.

If there's no ench with Extinguish Fatique around then he casts invigorize on himself in mid fight if really neccessary, takes you out of the fight for like 6 seconds...

Weight on weaps is overrated.

Another (non-allah):
http://www.monkly-business.net/forum...hp/t-4707.html

july 2003:

I've been soloing a monk through his 30s using a zekhas and a SoS and its been going fine. However, I noticed that most monks at the highest level are equipped with 2hb and I had neglected the skill. Luckily I hadnt used any practice points and managed to buy it up to 81 still leaving me well short. I managed to get hold of an original 19/20 RFS to get fast raises but my stamina bar empties faster than the ranger's cleric's mana bar!

IS this the norm with 2handers and if so whats the solution?

One thing to note about stamina drain is that the amount you lose with each swing is proportional to the weight of the weapon you are swinging.

Another:
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/arch...hp/t-6179.html

december 1999:

Extinguish Fatigue is useful in certain circumstances. Certain MOBS in Mistmoore Castle have a spell effect that causes the STA of your tanks to drop to zero. (It will say in the chat window 'PaladinBoy looks faint')

When their STA goes to zero, theie attacks drop to virtually nothing, so you need to hit your tanks with this, and then they are rough & ready to continue the fight.

Also, I recall one really tough night in the Unrest basement when we had a massive train, which we fought and did not run from. (YAY for us!) The fight was long and brutal, and somewhere in the middle, out dwarf warrior tells us that he's down to nothing on STA (He is tired), so I memmed this spell, got right up, casted, and he was swinging like a mad man again.

And if you ever adventure in Kedge or fight sharks in Erud's Crossing, you'll keep ext fatigue memm'd up. Even in smaller fights if the pulls are constant (6 or 7 mobs in a row) a melee'er with haste effect equipment like a sash or a mith 2h will start to tucker out a bit.

If you have ever been to new Paw and seen some of the trains there, you'll realize this isn't that bad of a spell to have memmed. We had a fight where there were just a constant flow of mobs. We clear the 3 Gnolls we pulled, then clear 3 more that were trained to zone, then in comes the next train, and again. Had to use Extinguish fatigue couple of times on the tanks. I've seen that MM thing too, but not often, so if a tank loses fatigue i sit and mem it really quick and then cast it.

Is there a difference between invigor/extinguish fatigue? Never bought the second, as i figured nothing more than maybe a faster cast or less mana (is that possible?) But invigor i do use quite a lot now with the higher level mobs, stuff with over 2k HP with mostly melee types comes to mind, seafuries, LDC's, imps, etc

Extinguish Fatigue – Used it a couple of times now, looks pretty sad vs the Bard Invogor song.

Extinguish Fatigue- ive had to use this spell regularly in 2 occasions... #1 ALLWAYS in kedge keep, your constantly swimming so your constantly useing sta, and the tanks use it up even quicker. #2 last night with a lvl 50 bard, with there song nearly halfing the dly time of all weapons, tanks where out of sta in no time. Extinguish is much better then invigor for 2 reasons, it is not a linger spell.. it charges your sta as soon as it hits, and it will fill your sta bar compleatly unlike vigor. And the extra mana it uses is VERY small, its what 25mana?

Another:
http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...188#post166188

august 2004:

As far as I know, no, there are no spells in production EQ that will do so. The old stamina regen spells have no impact at all on end regen.

There was initially a shaman ward with GoD whose description implied that it would regen endurance of those within range, but it only ever healed health, and the description has now been changed to match.

I know that after they nerfed all of the invigor line of spells to stop end regeneration there was still that lvl 3 bard song jaxons jig of vigor or whatever, that id have a bard i grouped with sing every now and again, did wonders. nfc if they fixed it or not yet.

There's more but i'll stop there (more allah too). I just wanted to give a broad picture of what's out there.

Could it be that the stamina spells and songs aren't working like they did in classic? The reason I ask is becaus soe removed the stamina/regen effect from stamina spells in 2003. Another thing to notice how people correlate haste effects and fast pulls with draining stamina - something less likely to happen in solo situations.

I agree that something is wrong with stamina use and stamina penalties. A 9 wt 2-hander should use less stamina than a 15 wt 2-hander, but it looks like it doesn't.

There's no reason that they can't go over it and make it work reasonably well. The trouble is getting it right. YOu can't just go on what one person says. If they did that, they'd be changing things that shouldn't be changed. Every single one of us remembers the past incorrectly. That's why this requires more than one person and some kind of backup evidence (net), preferably.