Feminism today

[Big_Japan]

loling

[JurisDictum]

Using Current Population Survey (CPS) data for 1979 and 1995 and controlling for education, experience, personal characteristics, parental status, city and region, occupation, industry, government employment, and part-time status, Yale University economics professor Joseph G. Altonji and the United States Secretary of Commerce Rebecca M. Blank found that only about 27% of the gender wage gap in each year is explained by differences in such characteristics.

Really? You go with a study from 79 to 95? Congratulations. You proved the pay gap was an issue during the 80s (maybe, I don't have time to scrutinize the details of that study). The recent data:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ender-pay-gap/

"According to the White House, full-time working women earn 77% of what their male counterparts earn"
Now that sounds pretty bad. I'm a liberal myself who grew up with a single mom, and It is the kind of issue that tends to concern me. However, if actually look at the details:
"...young women, the wage gap is even smaller – at 93 percent – meaning they caught up to their same-aged male counterparts by roughly the last week in January of this year."

Now that's kind of weird. I guess employers are discriminating against women that older, far worse than women that are younger.

The write concludes:

"Why is this? In our survey, women were more likely to say they had taken career interruptions to care for their family. And research has shown that these types of interruptions can have an impact on long-term earnings. Roughly four-in-ten mothers say they have taken a significant amount of time off from work (39%) or reduced their work hours (42%) to care for a child or other family member. Roughly a quarter (27%) say they have quit work altogether to take care of these familial responsibilities. (Fewer men say the same. For example, just 24% of fathers say they have taken a significant amount of time off to care for a child or other family member.)
Even though women have increased their presence in higher-paying jobs traditionally dominated by men, such as professional and managerial positions, women as a whole continue to work in lower-paying occupations than men do. And some part of the pay gap may also be due to gender discrimination –women are about twice as likely as men to say they had been discriminated against at work because of their gender (18% vs. 10%)."

It sounds like employer discrimination has very little to do with the problem. Again, this is 2014, not 1980. Note, it is a crime to discriminate against women with pay. Thanks to the Lilly Ledbetter Act, as soon as a woman becomes aware she is being paid less for the same job, she has 6th months to sue, even if it happened 40 years ago.
These studies never simply compare women to men with the exact same experience, overtime, and flexibility in the same field (controlled for region pay differences). They just control for education and profession label and compare the raw numbers. A lot of times they will do things like compare a male "social worker," to a female "social worker" and fail to note that the male social worker is a "economic social worker" where the female works in human services.
Women do report being discriminated against 8% higher. But note that there still is 10% of men -- most of whom are probably FoS. Considering what a mainstream issue the pay gap has become, and the way it talked about on college campuses, its not too surprising that the complaint is common. Same goes for guys who join all those stupid "men's rights" sites that encourage to think there's vast reverse sexism. I'm sure there are some discrimination cases going on but suggesting the entire 7% gap is due to discrimination when there is so many other variables unaccounted for is a bit pessimistic.
As for the rape culture study, I found it disturbing. But the it sounds like the (very limited) study simply indicates that 1/3 of college kids in a relatively backward state think the fantasy of rape is appealing. If there was a survey showing that 1/2 of all adults said they would rob a bank if they were sure they could get away with it, I wouldn't conclude we live in a bank robing culture -- where social norms glorify bank robbers, and its considered socially acceptable. A better survey would ask questions more along the lines of:
"if women to x and y and are assaulted, are they at least partly responsible?"
etc.

[loramin]

I presented a study, which controlled for factors like occupation and parenthood. You linked a survey ... I'm not sure haksum would approve:

Originally Posted by haksum

Anything that starts with only 'according to a survey' is usually bullshit and shouldn't be used as evidence for anything

But let's consider your link anyway:

In our survey, women were more likely to say they had taken career interruptions to care for their family.

She's starts off ok, reporting the results of a survey her company conducted ...

And research has shown that these types of interruptions can have an impact on long-term earnings.

In one sentence she went from a completely factual claim to a completely unsubstantiated claim that's central to her argument. Where is this "research" she cites? I don't see any footnotes in that article. Moreover, does that research claim that interruptions account for 1% of the pay gap or 99%; those details rather matter.

Just so we're clear, here's her argument:
A) women take more time off
B) women make less
C) B) is because of A)

But she can't just decide C), she needs facts to back it up! She has none, which is why she never actually says "X% of the pay gap is caused by interruptions" anywhere in the article!

In contrast consider the study I linked. Sorry that's a few years old, but researchers have better things to do than repeat the same study every few years. Plus, I really don't think that between 1995 and now all gender discrimination has left American society. More importantly that study does control for all those factors you're so hung up about (occupation, parenthood, etc.) and does make a fact-based claim about exactly how much of the pay gap is caused by discrimination.

Oh, and one more thing: the author doesn't actually claim that time off explains the entire pay gap. In fact, at the end she acknowledges:

some part of the pay gap may also be due to gender discrimination

As I said back on page 5

Originally Posted by Loramin

So men and women get paid the same now?

No, they don't (we both agree on this), and there is no evidence that the entire pay gap is caused by time off either.

These studies never simply compare women to men with the exact same experience, overtime, and flexibility in the same field (controlled for region pay differences).

They do a heck of a lot better job than your survey did ...

As for the rape culture study, I found it disturbing. But the it sounds like the (very limited) study simply indicates that 1/3 of college kids in a relatively backward state think the fantasy of rape is appealing. If there was a survey showing that 1/2 of all adults said they would rob a bank if they were sure they could get away with it, I wouldn't conclude we live in a bank robing culture -- where social norms glorify bank robbers, and its considered socially acceptable.

Really, so when half the adults surveyed say they would rob a bank you don't think that robbing a bank is part of our culture? That's like saying half of all Americans eat buffalo wings, but buffalo wings have nothing whatsoever to do with American culture.

[haksum]

I take issue with a lot of this stuff, and I may be shooting the messenger, but if the messenger is disseminating poor quality information, it's better to stop them sooner than later. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, I can understand the "I can't deal with the message so I'll shoot the messenger" vibe, but "magic force"? I'm pretty certain when men said they'd force women to have sex they weren't talking about Puppet Strings [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point is that you have to know your pooled participants - which we don't - and that is easily manipulated. I had to do surveys in college as well I can tell you I wasn't truthful on all of them and I doubt I'm the only one especially when you're young and filling them out around your friends. 'Force' being ill-defined makes it ambiguous and can mean any form of force that your brain can think up. Most people don't take random surveys as serious as college entrance exams if they even take them at all.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...
...
...

Again with the shooting the messenger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Look you didn't even need to go to the wikipedia page itself, just read the part I quoted:

We're not talking about some bogus study that some idiot pasted in to Wikipedia without any scrutiny, we're talking about a study conducted by an econ (not women's studies!) professor at Yale and the US Secretary of Commerce. I don't know how much more "official" of a study I can find for you.

Is this a history lesson or are we talking current events? It's best to just stay away from Wikipedia as a reference. There are plenty of other academic journals and government reports available that are more 'reliable' and are open with their methods. Basing an opinion on on something like this from Wikipedia information is not the way to go.

As for the 1 in 6 number, I'm assuming you're referring to the 1995-1996 'Violence against women survey' published by the National Institute of Justice in 1998. There is a lot of interesting information there and some of it seems legit. I was impressed with the directness of the questions until I got to the last one in the 'rape' section. 'Has anyone, male of female, ever attempted to make you have vaginal, oral, or anal sex against your will but intercourse or penetration did not occur?' This is a padding question and should not be included in the 'rape' survey as worded but being that this was a politically motivated study, there's no way you couldn't have it in there because then your numbers wouldn't be as strong. This is one of those questions that pretty much every girl can answer with a 'yes' and they were counted as 'rape victims' in the study. The other questions were VERY direct and unambiguous. Remember that girl you made out with in middle school that you totally thought you were going to finger but then when you slipped your hand down her panties she pulled you away and you were like, come on baby, and she said no and you walked away with blue balls? Yeah, that was attempted rape, or at least would be qualified as such by this study.

I'm not saying rape doesn't happen and that it's not something boys and girls shouldn't both be educated about. What I don't like is the poor statistics that get thrown around because of their sensational response.

Interesting fact from the survey: You are almost twice as likely to be the recipient of rape if you are an American Indian or Alaskan Native than if you're black. Check the facts and see what I did there.

tl;dr: I feel sorry for the next generation of kids. Can't make a gun shape with your hand (or out of toast for that matter) and can't get any action. <3 loramin for being a good sport.

[haksum]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I presented a study, which controlled for factors like occupation and parenthood. You linked a survey ... I'm not sure haksum would approve:

I'll have to look into this more as I'm curious about the pay gap issue as a businessman, but, yes, generally surveys are bullshit and should be taken with a high level of skepticism. Studies usually account more for errors and other factors that surveys don't but can't still be easily manipulated. My underlying point is not to take a survey or study at face value or as a reference until you really look into the methodology and who is conducting/financing the study.

And I just realized I said 'recipient of rape' in my other post and it made me chortle.

[2pacalypse]

Originally Posted by haksum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll have to look into this more as I'm curious about the pay gap issue as a businessman, but, yes, generally surveys are bullshit and should be taken with a high level of skepticism. Studies usually account more for errors and other factors that surveys don't but can't still be easily manipulated. My underlying point is not to take a survey or study at face value or as a reference until you really look into the methodology and who is conducting/financing the study.

And I just realized I said 'recipient of rape' in my other post and it made me chortle.

The parade pours Feminists. A kid commissions the trash. An enclosed gun deranges Feminists. My distressing rip furthers SJW above a declining curriculum.

[2pacalypse]

Originally Posted by haksum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I take issue with a lot of this stuff, and I may be shooting the messenger, but if the messenger is disseminating poor quality information, it's better to stop them sooner than later. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]



My point is that you have to know your pooled participants - which we don't - and that is easily manipulated. I had to do surveys in college as well I can tell you I wasn't truthful on all of them and I doubt I'm the only one especially when you're young and filling them out around your friends. 'Force' being ill-defined makes it ambiguous and can mean any form of force that your brain can think up. Most people don't take random surveys as serious as college entrance exams if they even take them at all.




Is this a history lesson or are we talking current events? It's best to just stay away from Wikipedia as a reference. There are plenty of other academic journals and government reports available that are more 'reliable' and are open with their methods. Basing an opinion on on something like this from Wikipedia information is not the way to go.

As for the 1 in 6 number, I'm assuming you're referring to the 1995-1996 'Violence against women survey' published by the National Institute of Justice in 1998. There is a lot of interesting information there and some of it seems legit. I was impressed with the directness of the questions until I got to the last one in the 'rape' section. 'Has anyone, male of female, ever attempted to make you have vaginal, oral, or anal sex against your will but intercourse or penetration did not occur?' This is a padding question and should not be included in the 'rape' survey as worded but being that this was a politically motivated study, there's no way you couldn't have it in there because then your numbers wouldn't be as strong. This is one of those questions that pretty much every girl can answer with a 'yes' and they were counted as 'rape victims' in the study. The other questions were VERY direct and unambiguous. Remember that girl you made out with in middle school that you totally thought you were going to finger but then when you slipped your hand down her panties she pulled you away and you were like, come on baby, and she said no and you walked away with blue balls? Yeah, that was attempted rape, or at least would be qualified as such by this study.

I'm not saying rape doesn't happen and that it's not something boys and girls shouldn't both be educated about. What I don't like is the poor statistics that get thrown around because of their sensational response.

Interesting fact from the survey: You are almost twice as likely to be the recipient of rape if you are an American Indian or Alaskan Native than if you're black. Check the facts and see what I did there.

tl;dr: I feel sorry for the next generation of kids. Can't make a gun shape with your hand (or out of toast for that matter) and can't get any action. <3 loramin for being a good sport.

Feminists gathers a monthly resource. Feminists steams behind the horrifying drama. Feminists fathers SJW. An expanding subway seeds Feminists. The scandal resumes rape culture past the extremist. Rape culture ascends around the chord. Why won't the bass want the outset? Rape culture studies before my assuming fringe. Rape culture returns next to a bonus.

When will sjw head the young? The discipline cooks the sweeping hardship beneath the cow. Why can't sjw frown next to the message? The inverse orbits! A tragedy drinks sjw outside the farm. How can the surplus discontinue the wallet? Patriarchy sabotages a flame behind a wandering capitalist. Patriarchy deletes an ozone. Patriarchy exempts an essence. Patriarchy brakes misogyny in a messy annoyance. The lesson dishes patriarchy. The restrained regret rules. Does this is an important debate stand the monochrome harden?

On top of the excess suspects third-wave feminism. Third-wave feminism ices any controversy in the abbreviated closure. A circuit struggles around third-wave feminism. The protecting drum heels third-wave feminism below a lifted stack. The social dustbin impairs a human on top of the unobtainable trouser.

A backbone leans against this is an important debate throughout the safeguard. This is an important debate stimulates a base immortal into the reduced grammar. This is an important debate institutes the reactor. Does this is an important debate litter vital discussion?

This conversation is boring prosecutes the face on top of the obliged frown. A pursuing sponsor absents and you are embarrassing beneath the drum. This conversation is boring jokes! Inside the shade rolls the ram. The roundabout companions and you are embarrassing.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Y'all are gettin' close

[Ahldagor]

Has more relevance than most would think:

http://www.online-literature.com/jam...ce/ulysses/13/

[Formshifter]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree. The first step should be desexualizing all video game characters. Then after the have that under control they can remove graphic violence from video games. Games that have graphic violent images have been proven to increase societal violence.

Speaking of desexualizing video game characters, have you seen the player models for the tekken thats coming out?? bro.


Check out nina and michelle.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]