Spells: Spell Resist changes

[Nirgon]

Root should definitely have a chance to break instantly on application. I had this happen in the following case too.

Which green mob you use it on is another matter. Some NPCs were innately very magic resistant (as seen when I tested in town guards on eqlive being green/light blue and still very resistant in largely unchanged zones like Felwithe/Grobb guards). Other NPCs were "undercons" like Dorn in Nro. Not every single lvl x npc should be a template of another of the same class.

I've barked up the Sergeant Slate tree 50 times about it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hoshkar AE has a -150 mod, so even with 255 resists you still wouldn't resist it much.

Better strategy is moar DPS, less bad necros/hybrids - also having the puller fade that first AE on incoming is pretty much wipe or no wipe.

No AE should have a -Mod. Those were added when they rebalanced the Resist system in PoP:

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020904.html

Looking at that AE in particular:

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...36&source=Live

Note they added that -150 mod on the same day.

[beev]

Even before this extreme resist imbalance, root broke randomly so there is definitely no need for there to be even more chance of resist or breaks. I died prior to this update to a root breaking twice right after application. As it stands now, I waste almost half of my mana pool on charming just one mob and having it attack another because of all the re-charms and root resists that occur. Basically have to play my monk until it is fixed or leveling my druid is going to be gamebreakingly silly.

No one was arguing for higher resists because it didn't feel classic, so why even "fix" what isn't broken?

[kaev]

I can't recall any time on live that roots were as solid vs. non-green mobs as they've been most of the time I've been on p99. I recall the return of root+snare stacking during Velious causing great rejoicing amongst Druids, Rangers, Necros, & ShadowKnights. And it wasn't just about solo play, root then snare was not uncommon CC in dungeon groups, root usually broke while killing a mob so the snare prevented runners and allowed for fear kiting when that happened.

[Sakir]

i have died more to charm breaks in last 2 days then in last 2 months PLEASE HELP US!

[Lownstar]

Haynar- if you have time can you post something on what the intended result was? I don't remember exactly how effective root/charm/slow was back in the day. But I didn't think it was as unreliable as it is now even with a debuff like mala/tash. The way it is now I can go from FM to oom on one mob trying to get debuff and slow or root to land

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No AE should have a -Mod. Those were added when they rebalanced the Resist system in PoP:

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020904.html

Looking at that AE in particular:

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...36&source=Live

Note they added that -150 mod on the same day.

Lucy doesn't go far back enough, but in place of the "Resist Adjust" spell mod there was another mod in the spell dat that was basically Lure(#) - the # could be anything from 1 to 9 I believe and the exact resist adjustment was calculated somewhere else.

During the resist overhaul you mentioned they changed how this was displayed in the spell data to the Resistadj mod but Dragon AEs and fears were definitely "Lures" well before this patch.

Edit:

If you don't believe me, check out the history for Dragon Fear on the Test server, some other dragon AEs have similar modifications (The Hoshkar one probably had its changes made on Test before Lucy started cataloging changes):

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...89&source=Test

2002-08-22 10:10 Removed Slot 1: Lure(6)
2002-08-22 10:10 Changed Resistadj from 0 to -200

Basically you can conclude that Lure(6) was equivalent to -200 resist adjust in the previous system.

[Ambrouis]

I'm having a lot more issues with root lately (after the patch that fixed it) The same forest giants I was killing before are breaking root 150% more than before. I understand it has always had a chance, but I have never seen this many early breaks immediately after casting. I'm 46 and the giants are 42 if that matters. I was also hearing a 54 shaman, 56 cleric, and 57 druid were having trouble rooting in lcy in my group. (after today's patch)

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lucy doesn't go far back enough, but in place of the "Resist Adjust" spell mod there was another mod in the spell dat that was basically Lure(#) - the # could be anything from 1 to 9 I believe and the exact resist adjustment was calculated somewhere else.

During the resist overhaul you mentioned they changed how this was displayed in the spell data to the Resistadj mod but Dragon AEs and fears were definitely "Lures" well before this patch.

Edit:

If you don't believe me, check out the history for Dragon Fear on the Test server, some other dragon AEs have similar modifications (The Hoshkar one probably had its changes made on Test before Lucy started cataloging changes):

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...89&source=Test



Basically you can conclude that Lure(6) was equivalent to -200 resist adjust in the previous system.

I was aware of the Lure component, but the Diseased Cloud AE doesn't have that.

The change to the resist code was September 2002. That Lure swap for Fear was August 2002.

Lucy started March 2002. I fail to believe the Diseased Cloud had its Lure removed and replaced with -150 resist adjust 6 months before the patch.

Also the effect you linked is Dragon Fear. The AE they are listed as using is Dragon Roar (which had no Lure component), this is the effect used today on these dragons. Unsure if they swapped these effects at some point, but Alla has the Old School + Kunark dragons using Dragon Roar (no Lure mod) and the Velious dragons using Dragon Fear (Lure mod). On live today:

[Sat Nov 01 13:34:43 2014] Lady Vox begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>
[Sat Nov 01 13:34:43 2014] You resist the Dragon Roar spell!
[Sat Nov 01 13:35:20 2014] Lady Vox begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>
[Sat Nov 01 13:35:59 2014] Lady Vox begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>
[Sat Nov 01 13:35:59 2014] You resist the Dragon Roar spell!

[Sun Nov 23 14:00:40 2014] Lord Nagafen begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>
[Sun Nov 23 14:00:40 2014] You resist the Dragon Roar spell!
[Sun Nov 23 14:01:18 2014] Lord Nagafen begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>
[Sun Nov 23 14:01:55 2014] Lord Nagafen begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>
[Sun Nov 23 14:02:31 2014] Lord Nagafen begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>

They use Roar.

[Man0warr]

The lure component exists in this timeline for Dragon fears and (most) dragon AEs, but Lucy obviously has missed out on some of the modifications during the resist overhaul.

Check out Dragon Roar from the Trilogy client spell dat file:

789^Dragon Roar^PLAYER_1^^^ lets loose a mighty roar.^You flee in terror.^^You are no longer afraid.^0^300^0^0^0^0^36000^7^3^0^0^-6^1^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^400^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^2 507^2116^-1^-1^-1^-1^1^1^1^1^-1^-1^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^ 0^0^0^1^10^23^254^254^254^254^254^254^254^254^254^ 254^4^0^52^-1^0^0^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61 ^43^13^0^13^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^10 0^0^154^0

Note the bolded part.

Now compared to Rain of Cold with a -100 resist check on Lucy:

Lucy:
2002-09-04 11:33 Removed Slot 1: Lure(4)
2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Resistadj from 0 to -100

Trilogy client spell file:

1487^Rain of Cold^PLAYER_1^^^Calls forth a circle of frozen shards above you.^Frozen shards slice into your skin.^^^150^300^0^0^0^0^12000^0^0^7500^0^-4^-300^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^25 15^2063^-1^-1^-1^-1^1^1^1^1^-1^-1^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^ 0^0^0^3^10^0^254^254^254^254^254^254^254^254^254^2 54^4^0^24^-1^0^0^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61^61 ^44^13^0^3^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^0^100 ^0^116^0

You can conclude just by comparing these two spell dat entries that Dragon Roar had Lure(-6) in the Velious client.

You can also conclude from this that the Lure system is multiples of 25 - example Lure(-4) is -100 and Lure(-6) is -150.

So if Lucy doesn't show Dragon Roar as ever having a Lure component in it's change log, then either A) the change took place before Lucy was recording modifications or B) it just missed it (this is a common occurrence if I recall correctly) - so it's safe to say that Hoshkar's AE did have a Lure component on it on Classic (and Lucy doesn't have a record of the change from Lure -> Resist Adjust) and definitely DOES have a Lure (or resist adjust) component on it right now on P99.

Point being - don't trust Lucy as gospel for all things to do with spells - we have copies of the actual spell dat files available to us from Velious.

Edit: I just wasted a bunch of time cracking off spell dat file and realized Alunova already did this research 5 months ago O.o