VP closed to Class R guilds?

[Fountree]

.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No server had Venril Sathir being tagged <5 seconds after spawn and killed <2minutes after spawn.

None. Anywhere. At all.

Exactly. This is my problem with the current raid rules: if we are going to deviate from classic, we should pick something fun, not something that replicates a tier system via people who are willing to stare at the wall.

FWIW, I suspect Afterlife and Fires of Heaven would be facepalming hard when they watch what passes for competition here (they'd probably do it anyway, though!)

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Derubael

VP will never be a "Class R" thing. The "best" content is always going to be something that will go to the guilds who put the most time/effort into getting there.

I still don't understand what is not clear about this. It states a ruling and gives the reasoning.

Whether anyone likes it or not, this is the mentality of those running the show. Step-up or gtfo. And I don't know how you say you're not trying to lawyer your way into VP after reading the last few posts.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by -TK- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I still don't understand what is not clear about this. It states a ruling and gives the reasoning.

Whether anyone likes it or not, this is the mentality of those running the show. Step-up or gtfo. And I don't know how you say you're not trying to lawyer your way into VP after reading the last few posts.

No one is really disagreeing with the ruling, we simply dont understand the logic.

If the best and the brightest need all these added layers of protection from the 'casual scum' then it makes you wonder why there is so much pandering to one group of people

and lets remember what even 'separates' them from the others....the willingness to go full neckbeard when approached with these time sink problems

Raev makes an excellent point each time he posts and I will re-iterate it....

Why adopt more timesinks rather than accepting that things here are never going to be all that 'classic feeling' and work on integrating changes that add 'fun' but keep in the spirit of classic EQ.

inb4 Clark's Custom99 quips, I dont think anyone here wants carnival type attractions in terms of their dragon encounters, but there are so many great ideas out there that would add a little bit of fun and classic flavor up in this piece that its crazy the main focus ( besides Velious ) seems to be keeping pixels flowing to the top 5%ers.

[-TK-]

So if 'willingness to go full neckbeard' = 'more time/effort', then I'm confused as to where the disconnect is based on the Deru's post. It's a rose by another name.

I guarantee that TMO and IB continually put more neckbeard (time/effort) into preparing for the endgame than other guilds. Everyone pokes fun at their 5/6/7th alt, but that is time and effort. They are prepared to camp out a character at each mob and their reward for the time invested is the top level endgame content. They are also willing to log-in in force at all hours of the day to kill mobs and do so consistently. You shouldn't hate someone because they have more time to play than you whether you think they are lame for it or not. They put in a LOT of time/effort to be setup for raiding. It's their primary goal when they log in. Any guild could do the same if they are so motivated. Everquest has always been a game that rewards time and effort. I see no difference in this instance.

The way I've seen it over the past year, as have many others, is that this started with TMO and IB locking down pretty much all the raid mobs and the other guilds complained. The GMs intervened and forced IB and TMO to give up numerous spawns but in the process made VP exclusive to them to counter what they were giving up. So here we are almost a year later and now class R wants TMO and IB to give up VP without giving anything up themselves. It doesn't make sense. Class R has the option to kill mobs in VP, but first they must be willing to risk the allotted spawns they were given last year. I don't see how that is not fair. I suspected this might happen as class R became more bloated and guilds began waiting longer and longer for spawns but that is irrelevant.

This is just my own opinion, of course. The logic doesn't seem too awry to me, but I also don't spend as much time worrying about it as some people do.

[Man0warr]

Nah just this guy who posted the thread wants Class C to give up VP.

Most of Class R wants to remove FFA cycle to minimize the amount of time having to interact with Class C and also to eliminate poopsocking. But they don't care if Class C keeps VP exclusivity in the deal - that is their bonus for their time spent.

[Buhbuh]

On Red 99, VP is for whichever guild can take it forcefully. Don't wait in line anymore, bros.

I know this shit aggravates you. PM me, we'll get you setup. Bring your pals, group exp is fast. Come make gains and learn to PvP.

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah just this guy who posted the thread wants Class C to give up VP.

Most of Class R wants to remove FFA cycle to minimize the amount of time having to interact with Class C and also to eliminate poopsocking. But they don't care if Class C keeps VP exclusivity in the deal - that is their bonus for their time spent.

That seems a lot more logical than what I was taking away from this. I can't claim to know the full stance of the class R guilds but can only infer it from in-game conversations and forum posts. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by -TK- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if 'willingness to go full neckbeard' = 'more time/effort', then I'm confused as to where the disconnect is based on the Deru's post. It's a rose by another name.

No one is disputing that FITEMOBS (this acronym was so much cooler when FE was still around) puts in more time.

What we are questioning is why, if the staff decided to go to a nonclassic raid system, was it one that rewarded people for staring at a wall (variance) and not for skill (repops).

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by -TK- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if 'willingness to go full neckbeard' = 'more time/effort', then I'm confused as to where the disconnect is based on the Deru's post. It's a rose by another name.

I guarantee that TMO and IB continually put more neckbeard (time/effort) into preparing for the endgame than other guilds. Everyone pokes fun at their 5/6/7th alt, but that is time and effort. They are prepared to camp out a character at each mob and their reward for the time invested is the top level endgame content. They are also willing to log-in in force at all hours of the day to kill mobs and do so consistently. You shouldn't hate someone because they have more time to play than you whether you think they are lame for it or not. They put in a LOT of time/effort to be setup for raiding. It's their primary goal when they log in. Any guild could do the same if they are so motivated. Everquest has always been a game that rewards time and effort. I see no difference in this instance.

The way I've seen it over the past year, as have many others, is that this started with TMO and IB locking down pretty much all the raid mobs and the other guilds complained. The GMs intervened and forced IB and TMO to give up numerous spawns but in the process made VP exclusive to them to counter what they were giving up. So here we are almost a year later and now class R wants TMO and IB to give up VP without giving anything up themselves. It doesn't make sense. Class R has the option to kill mobs in VP, but first they must be willing to risk the allotted spawns they were given last year. I don't see how that is not fair. I suspected this might happen as class R became more bloated and guilds began waiting longer and longer for spawns but that is irrelevant.

This is just my own opinion, of course. The logic doesn't seem too awry to me, but I also don't spend as much time worrying about it as some people do.

great post. sad that so many can't grasp or agree with this logic...