Stop the Socking

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cucs is not an officer of BDA.

Also, I've worked in good faith this entire time while you're allowing Shinko to resurrect FE so they can crash the Class R rotation system. Talking out of both sides of your mouth yet again.

No. You don't work with Class-C in good faith and any of your officers can confirm that as they repeatedly express their embarrassment of your behavior and apologize to me for it every time I leave vent with you.

Also, Shinko asked you for information on joining the rotation and you told him to fuck off.

TL;DR - Make Cucs guild leader.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll agree socking is an issue due to long windows. I won't agree to the foot race = coth ducking = it's all bad rhetoric. Ya'll won't even come to the table to talk about it because something something fuck TMO/IB we'd rather propose this option that fucks C out of x% mobs and fuck them if they won't work with us and something something stop demonizing us for maintaining a shitty FFA scene while not even being willing to try to talk about resolutions unless it benefits us massively blah blah blah

I don't want anything to benefit class R massively!! I even concede the point that class C should get more loot if they want to dedicate more extreme amounts of time.

In the current system class C is getting 75% for the raid targets when you include the class C share, the 90% of FFA mobs they take down, and 100% of VP targets. If we changed the entire system to C/R and FFA on repops while keeping the current bag limits and keeping VP a class C playground class C would still get 65-70% of the kills.

Everyone keeps saying sweeping changes are off the table, but if ALL the guilds came together for the first time in server history I'm confident changes could be made. Unprecedented cooperation would spur unprecedented action.

The counter to this Unbrella generously offered to make it C/C/R which then be more like 80% of the kills for class C, but hey at least we don't have any overlap between tiers right?

I want things to be better, I'm working in good faith but so far I've only seen class C say "you can just concede everything and that would be fine" or they've stamped off on an alt guild to crash the class R rotation for the sheer purpose of undermining the system currently implemented.

What else can I do to fix this?? I'm trying here man. This isn't rhetoric, these are all facts.

[khanable]

my final thoughts: it's admirable R will look out for each other in the way they do

but when it comes to working with C, you guys really need to stop worrying about what will benefit them and what will benefit you and instead focus on 'what is fair to both parties that benefits us all?'

if you guys came to the table keeping the division of mobs the same and had some ideas about variance reduction/removal of overlap, without trying to get something more out of it, you might actually get somewhere.

also Chest I'm not just directing all these posts at just you - I know you've conceded C should have their fair stake, but R as a whole isn't on that level yet

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. You don't work with Class-C in good faith and any of your officers can confirm that as they repeatedly express their embarrassment of your behavior and apologize to me for it every time I leave vent with you.

Also, Shinko asked you for information on joining the rotation and you told him to fuck off.

TL;DR - Make Cucs guild leader.

Of course I told him to fuck off. Why should class C have an alt guild just to continue fucking with class R?? Why can't you just go fight IB and leave the rest of the server alone? Do you not see how absolutely mental this entire thing is?? You already have 75% of the mobs to fight over but you want to sanction an alt guild to go gouge another chunk out of the remaining 25% that 10 guilds are already splitting?

[khanable]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't want anything to benefit class R massively!! I even concede the point that class C should get more loot if they want to dedicate more extreme amounts of time.

In the current system class C is getting 75% for the raid targets when you include the class C share, the 90% of FFA mobs they take down, and 100% of VP targets. If we changed the entire system to C/R and FFA on repops while keeping the current bag limits and keeping VP a class C playground class C would still get 65-70% of the kills.

Everyone keeps saying sweeping changes are off the table, but if ALL the guilds came together for the first time in server history I'm confident changes could be made. Unprecedented cooperation would spur unprecedented action.

The counter to this Unbrella generously offered to make it C/C/R which then be more like 80% of the kills for class C, but hey at least we don't have any overlap between tiers right?

I want things to be better, I'm working in good faith but so far I've only seen class C say "you can just concede everything and that would be fine" or they've stamped off on an alt guild to crash the class R rotation for the sheer purpose of undermining the system currently implemented.

What else can I do to fix this?? I'm trying here man. This isn't rhetoric, these are all facts.

So here is the issue

C/R means less for C, no matter how much less

C/C/R means less for R, no matter how much less

Don't write these gains/loses off as trivial - you guys can figure out a way to keep them equal. Get that out of the way and then move onto the other issues.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So here is the issue

C/R means less for C, no matter how much less

C/C/R means less for R, no matter how much less

Don't write these gains/loses off as trivial - you guys can figure out a way to keep them equal. Get that out of the way and then move onto the other issues.

I'm not writing them off as trivial but the Class C side has the leverage because they know if they do nothing the status quo remains and they'll still get their 75%. Throughout the history of this server the hardcore side has only done what was best for the minority of hardcore players.

BDA could have had that same mindset and just ran roughshod over the class R system, get as much as possible, but we along with the other guilds wanted to make changes and we've effectively done so to the detriment of our possible pixel gains. In fact we're still mocked for raiding in this fashion to the point where TMO is allowing an alt guild to exist for the sole purpose of wrecking this effort.

Unbrella, do you even care what happens to this server? Because constantly shitting on the playerbase taking taking taking taking and giving no fucks has been the usual message the hardcore players have had since day 1.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't want anything to benefit class R massively!! I even concede the point that class C should get more loot if they want to dedicate more extreme amounts of time.

In the current system class C is getting 75% for the raid targets when you include the class C share, the 90% of FFA mobs they take down, and 100% of VP targets. If we changed the entire system to C/R and FFA on repops while keeping the current bag limits and keeping VP a class C playground class C would still get 65-70% of the kills.

Everyone keeps saying sweeping changes are off the table, but if ALL the guilds came together for the first time in server history I'm confident changes could be made. Unprecedented cooperation would spur unprecedented action.

The counter to this Unbrella generously offered to make it C/C/R which then be more like 80% of the kills for class C, but hey at least we don't have any overlap between tiers right?

I want things to be better, I'm working in good faith but so far I've only seen class C say "you can just concede everything and that would be fine" or they've stamped off on an alt guild to crash the class R rotation for the sheer purpose of undermining the system currently implemented.

What else can I do to fix this?? I'm trying here man. This isn't rhetoric, these are all facts.

Maybe it's just early, but can you explain how a C/FFA/R system results in more than class C guilds getting more than 66% of total mobs? Even on repops the R mobs are protected...

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe it's just early, but can you explain how a C/FFA/R system results in more than class C guilds getting more than 66% of total mobs? Even on repops the R mobs are protected...

I did the math before, I think it was earlier in this thread even, but assuming there's 4 repops a month (I know, magical ChristmasLand) class C is getting 1/3 of the normal pops, 90% of anything FFA, and 100% of VP mobs (that's 48 potential kills right there) which is basically 75% of all potential kills. Plus, I didn't even factor in efreetis in sky.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe it's just early, but can you explain how a C/FFA/R system results in more than class C guilds getting more than 66% of total mobs? Even on repops the R mobs are protected...

He considers VP mobs in his equations which in all honesty probably unnecessarily complicates the math

[arsenalpow]

Here it is. This was back of the envelope math assuming some perfect world conditions.