Stop the Socking

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Tameth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One particle of unobtainium has a nuclear reaction with the flux capacitor - carry the '2' - changing its atomic isotoner into a radioactive spider. Fuck you, Science!

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That's how I felt after these 40 pages.

Especially if we can get this agreement signed by everyone and variance cut down to non-retarded levels.

[G13]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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That's how I felt after these 40 pages.

Especially if we can get this agreement signed by everyone and variance cut down to non-retarded levels.

Why don't you guys direct all the energy you use on the sock to developing a real classic server where there is no variance

Variance isn't Classic

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Think they would still say no if this agreement is made though?

I dunno, I was under the assumption no means no.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by labmonkey42 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just going to stop you right here. Nothing you ever say on this forum ever again can be taken seriously as of this moment.

The barrier exists because of people like you having an overt policy of intentionally blocking (by way of *repeatedly BREAKING rules*) other guilds from beating you to a target you want.

False. Ask the GM's how many times they have had to investigate anything I have done. I go out of my way to not break a rule. It has cost me FTE a couple times because I don't push the rules. I am one of the first people to always say stop on mobs where something we as a guild may have done something questionable.

I am one of the first people to always shutdown yelling about something another guild "May" have done wrong. Ask my guildies. Ask former guildies of mine in other guilds. I don't promote petitionquest and I go out of my way to take myself out of an encounter if it's even remotely questionable I did something wrong. I have presented anything that might be questionable to GMs before I put them into practice. Derubel can confirm this.

Originally Posted by labmonkey42 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You call our people cheaters when your people *break the rules on purpose*.

You try to muscle in and tweak the rules to allow your mage army to give you a tactical edge on the Trak engage race and then you cry when we incorporate your coth tactic for Sev and win the very next day.

False. Find anywhere in this thread or previously where I try to tweak rules for an advantage. The only thing I want to see at this point of Kunark is a more open raid scene with Velious so close. Let everyone race in fun with lower windows without having to stare at screens so long.

Originally Posted by labmonkey42 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Taunting, "lol compete harder" on the forums and then crying, "GM, GM! Taken isn't playing fair!" when we succeed is a double standard, and is precisely why many people hate you.

Anddd...False.

I didn't whine in this thread. I made points for a change that would make things more enjoyable for folks. I did point to things in the FFA cycle that have occurred, but I never said it ruined anything and I didn't whine. It made everyone work more yes and that was fine with me. I just think it can be more fun with the changes I presented.

Originally Posted by labmonkey42 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for the rest of you... All of this forum whining is ridiculous. Grow up.

Remove variance. Set classic spawn timers. Ban anyone who breaks a rule permanently (not this stupid 2 week raid suspension crap).

Whining while saying other people are whining. Please just stop.

[Komodon]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It happened as a JOKE. 2 hrs left for Naggy Breaken ( calling you out father of CoH ducking ) decided it would be funny to 'pump fake' TMO and he casted COH then stopped it.

Well TMO's mages there got scared at the thought Taken might have a 5 sec head start than them so they started doing it too.....

Prior to playing on p99 i actually spent a few years playing/raiding with Breaken in a pretty close knit guild. Having obviously gone our separate ways since then, on multiple occasions now he's always made it a point to express his distaste for TMO, under the usual claims that our play style ruins the server.

Reading that i can now firmly place the blame of coth ducking at his feet just made my night. For that you have my thanks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Komodon]

Originally Posted by Joyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Finally an answer! thank you!

Well, kind of an answer. What I was asking about was if that mage CoH'd in your FTE'r or if your FTE'rs foot-raced from the zone in. Surely someone knows!
You guys are good at dodging the question at the heart of the matter. You almost had me for a split second there.

I get you are fishing there, but in the process you are also completely overestimating the actual amount of effort/planning that goes into that tracking. Shortly before an FFA window opens somebody runs a mage over to track, sets up the link.....and that is the tracker team/characters people will log in/out of for the duration. So yeah, cothed was used (we also got the fte, but the batphone was down and nobody got it until 30 min latter. They died. Fun times for Visceral getting to explain to everybody logging in that VS was already dead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]).

I will again state though that from a personal standpoint, and on a purely logistics level, i am actually an overall fan of mage tracking (my reasons why stated in the raid forum). Minus the ducking of course. But with that i also completely understand where people like Pint are coming from, and despite some people's attempts to ignore it, won't dismiss the Class C sample size offering evidence that Lazie's racing suggestion here not only works....but people by and large seem to find it a lot more enjoyable. Which ultimately trumps my own individual preference (<3 Lazie).

For the record, my overall intent in the raid forum wasn't to completely demonize Taken in this either. At least to an extent that somehow suggests Class C does not play it's own role in upping the ante high enough that it ends up discouraging smaller Class R guilds from participating, and certainly not to the extent of claiming that without Taken FFA would be "working as intended". Anybody keeping count on the overall participation level we've seen from Class R since day 1 can see it's clearly not. With or without the coth ducking.

But that just brings me to what Unbrella helped remind me of the other night, and why i'll probably choose to not bother with that thread again. Daldaen, i admire the effort here but you are ultimately overlooking the biggest factor of all. That being the people who would represent Class R as a whole and need to sign off on this type of proposal...have never shown any interest in doing so. Same as it was back when i tried to float these general ideas past them before..to this day it's all (more uncontested from Class C VS/CT/Inny for them) or nothing. Which is why if/when Chest reads this post and replies tomorrow, you'll see a lot more of the same "TMO is the devil, held the server hostage for years, ecttt" talk, and additional emphasize on why FFA on respawns is the only solution for everybody. What you probably won't and i'd be shocked to see is him doing what you are trying to do now. Spending more then a single second taking the focus off what we'll likely never agree on, and instead turning that to what we might/could. Ultimately making whether FFA spawns could exist in a much more desirable state that includes us regularly co-existing irrelevant...he simply sees no "win" to be had in that.

With that i'll say the same thing i said back when the current rules went in. Those Class R leaders fought the good fight for you guys, and despite giving up more then we wanted to give, overall i believe the server walked out for the better in the aftermath. But my god...cut the heads off those guilds for even a day after-the-fact, put Unbrella/Erati/Cucumbers/myself in a vent together, and i have zero doubt walking out of that discussion the FFA raiding game looks much different then what you see today. Starting with the death of in-game poopsocks, and the need for more then an absolute minimum amount of variance.

[arsenalpow]

Cucs is not an officer of BDA.

Also, I've worked in good faith this entire time while you're allowing Shinko to resurrect FE so they can crash the Class R rotation system. Talking out of both sides of your mouth yet again.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Komodon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That being the people who would represent Class R as a whole and need to sign off on this type of proposal...have never shown any interest in doing so.

TMO and IB both spoke to me about trying to get accessible raid engagement rules set in stone when this CoTH ducking crap started (this was back when I was on the R forums + an officer of BDA). Yes, the reason nothing got anywhere is because a few entities in R would rather see FFA be shit than do anything that is a net gain for TMO/IB (despite it being a net gain for everyone).

It was pretty sad honestly.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO and IB both spoke to me about trying to get accessible raid engagement rules set in stone when this CoTH ducking crap started. Yes, the reason nothing got anywhere is because a few entities in R would rather see FFA be shit than do anything that is a net gain for TMO/IB (despite it being a net gain for everyone).

It was pretty sad honestly.

Cucs we just had this conversation yesterday! CotH ducking, foot races, it doesn't matter. The fundamental problem is the socking. Foot races may be more palatable than using mages but it doesn't change the fact that you'll still need a raid force sitting and waiting for up to 16 hours to capitalize on the FTE. There has to be sweeping changes not just swapping one shitty option for another slightly less shitty option.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cucs we just had this conversation yesterday! CotH ducking, foot races, it doesn't matter. The fundamental problem is the socking. Foot races may be more palatable than using mages but it doesn't change the fact that you'll still need a raid force sitting and waiting for up to 16 hours to capitalize on the FTE. There has to be sweeping changes not just swapping one shitty option for another slightly less shitty option.

I'll agree socking is an issue due to long windows. I won't agree to the foot race = coth ducking = it's all bad rhetoric. Ya'll won't even come to the table to talk about it because something something fuck TMO/IB we'd rather propose this option that fucks C out of x% mobs and fuck them if they won't work with us and something something stop demonizing us for maintaining a shitty FFA scene while not even being willing to try to talk about resolutions unless it benefits us massively blah blah blah