The Current Raid Environment

[Argh]

I don't really see there being a need for any big changes to the system that is currently in place.

There is already plenty of incentive to move from R to C.
1) It opens up VP.
2) There are only two C guilds to compete against.
3) Those guilds largely focus on VP.

In following that it makes no sense to open VP up as FFA as it would get rid of the largest incentive to move to C. If R gets access to VP then it means no guild will ever leave class R.

It could be made more clear as to how the process of being moved back down to R would work though (x weeks without a kill in vp).

FFA mobs are always going to be a shit show. Everyone will exploit any advantage there is to the utmost (coth ducking started on the first ffa mob with new rules). Poop socking, autofiring, coth ducking is evidence of this. I think everyone would agree to remove coth ducking, but once it is removed there will be another largely annoying thing that everyone suffers through because of fear that every other guild is doing it. There is no real simple solution to FFA problems other than through some code of conduct/honor system bullshit nobody here would honestly abide by.

If it were on the table, removing or reducing variance for everything would be great. This is the only real change that I think would improve things for everyone.

[jpetrick]

Variance should be reduced further maybe to +\- 2 or +\- 4. I don't really care if people want to sit around for the whole window on C or FFA mobs. (Repops are the only thing that works for having things be FFA because it spreads guilds out) I hate the burden a 16 hour window puts on people. It's not that easy to clear your schedule for 16 hours and I don't think you should be having people do that. Everquest is already a massive timesink. Non classic features shouldn't add further to that.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think everyone would agree to remove coth ducking

asgard supports this stance. why cant we just go back to only allowing mages at trak?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

asgard supports this stance. why cant we just go back to only allowing mages at trak?

because its not that simple.

two coth mages are infinitely easier to police that a mass of people at a specific spot running to a target, you'd need fraps to confirm the person that got FTE was at the predesignated spot before running and getting FTE

[Pint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

because its not that simple.

two coth mages are infinitely easier to police that a mass of people at a specific spot running to a target, you'd need fraps to confirm the person that got FTE was at the predesignated spot before running and getting FTE

seems like all you would need is a log of the zone at the time of the spawn and a rule saying no fte'er can be camped inside the zone for ffa spawns.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

seems like all you would need is a log of the zone at the time of the spawn and a rule saying no fte'er can be camped inside the zone for ffa spawns.

So then people are outside the zone and fastest ssd wins? Like I've said different isn't better, just different.

[-Catherin-]

C/R rotation and then FFA on repops is the most realistic way to go

100% FFA repops effectively eliminate the sockfest/magecoh/drama that we have been experiencing every single time these FFA mobs come along.

To me it really is a no brainer that this takes care of a lot of issues. The biggest one separating Class C and R from each other. Repops become a true race while Class C can continue their thing in Class C while Class R can continue their thing in Class R

The other thing I really think needs to happen is we need some clear expectations on moving out of Class C if it doesn't work out for us. Moving to Class C is like the current FFA monstrosity now, except you are forced to do it on every mob, every time.

It was staffs goal to provide an environment where class R guilds would eventually want to move to class C, but you must see this is not the environment that can happen in. I know that moving my guild to class C, even if we got a target or two here and then would ultimately destroy my guild. I would never in my right mind put my guild in that position.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

C/R rotation and then FFA on repops is the most realistic way to go

100% FFA repops effectively eliminate the sockfest/magecoh/drama that we have been experiencing every single time these FFA mobs come along.

To me it really is a no brainer that this takes care of a lot of issues. The biggest one separating Class C and R from each other. Repops become a true race while Class C can continue their thing in Class C while Class R can continue their thing in Class R

The other thing I really think needs to happen is we need some clear expectations on moving out of Class C if it doesn't work out for us. Moving to Class C is like the current FFA monstrosity now, except you are forced to do it on every mob, every time.

It was staffs goal to provide an environment where class R guilds would eventually want to move to class C, but you must see this is not the environment that can happen in. I know that moving my guild to class C, even if we got a target or two here and then would ultimately destroy my guild. I would never in my right mind put my guild in that position.

+1 to everything posted here.

Also, it is important to address Drak's complaint about the faction tracker situation. If a new guild is trying to join us it is going to be incredibly difficult for them to figure out what we all already have established... adding on detailed x and y coordinates to where the non factioned tracker and where the faction tracker can stand is beyond absurd--especially when that info is not openly available.

If the server went to an FFA on repops only that would absolutely eliminate ALL forms of poopsocking FFA mobs. The only poopsocking that would ever occur is for your own mob in the way your respective class system function, not competitive. Its one thing to frequently check your screen every now and again to see if a dragon is running around and spamming CoTH for hours on end.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, it is important to address Drak's complaint about the faction tracker situation. If a new guild is trying to join us it is going to be incredibly difficult for them to figure out what we all already have established... adding on detailed x and y coordinates to where the non factioned tracker and where the faction tracker can stand is beyond absurd--especially when that info is not openly available.

Now I'm even more confused than I was in the other thread. What's all this about where this type of person can stand and where that person can stand? Trackers can stand wherever they'd like, but if they get FTE on a target they're violating a rule. Essentially they are taking an enormous risk standing within aggro range of the spawn if not factioned.