Shaman Math

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Droxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More HP means more mana regen

Not really true. It's not like canni gives you more mana per HP if you have more total HP; it's a fixed amount. Yeah, regen will increase your HP gain per tick and by extension your mana gain per tick, but having more total HP doesn't change anything. So having more HP will give you more mana in the same way that having more WIS will give you more mana, except the HP will be less efficient for it. The valid point here is that more HP = more survivability, though I agree with the above posters that AC>HP>mana.

[Taluvill]

I know this guy, Jeremy, who has a barbarian shaman, and he has the CT hammer.

after self buffs he maxes to 255 dex, and also has like 150+ wis, more than enough for casting.

He melee's and procs wayyyy better than most, and has a 300 dmg nuke almost on constant proc. Shamans are fun.

[Rahnza]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not really true. It's not like canni gives you more mana per HP if you have more total HP; it's a fixed amount. Yeah, regen will increase your HP gain per tick and by extension your mana gain per tick, but having more total HP doesn't change anything. So having more HP will give you more mana in the same way that having more WIS will give you more mana, except the HP will be less efficient for it. The valid point here is that more HP = more survivability, though I agree with the above posters that AC>HP>mana.

Let's say you're uncomfortable about canning below 40%, and also ignoring hp regen.

And let's consider a shaman who's highly built around HP gear and has about 2000 HP. 40% of 2000 = can't go below 800 HP. We have another shaman who focuses on Wis gear and he has about 1500 HP. 40% of 1500 is 600 HP.

They both start canning for mana. 48 seconds later (18 cannis), shaman 2 is at 40% HP and must stop. He regained approximately 430 mana.

Shaman 1 continues to canni for 16.5 seconds longer than shaman 2, or 6 additional cannis. He's now at 40% HP and regained approximately 575 mana.

So please explain, how does having more HP not assist with mana regen?

[Swishahouse]

Out of combat I cani down to the point where with Chloro+Rage I will return to full health and mana at the same time....


There is absolutely no purpose to ignore HP regen and I cannot stand when people try and make that hypothetical because HP regen is a core foundation of the shaman class and one of the main reasons it works....

[Rahnza]

Originally Posted by Swishahouse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Out of combat I cani down to the point where with Chloro+Rage I will return to full health and mana at the same time....


There is absolutely no purpose to ignore HP regen and I cannot stand when people try and make that hypothetical because HP regen is a core foundation of the shaman class and one of the main reasons it works....

HP regen was "ignored" for the above example because we were considering 2 shaman with the same amount of hp regen. It wouldn't have affected the point at all, and if we ran this "experiment" for say an hour with hp regen factored in, then the shaman with more hp would have regained even larger amounts of mana over the shaman with more wis.

Also if you're ever at full health and mana, "ur doing it wrong."

[Swishahouse]

Oh yeah you are right I've had people ask me to ignore that to make a different point.

For the most part I agree if you are maximising your shaman you probably will not be at 100% health however and this is particularly when soloing I will go to 100H/100M before engaging certain targets Lguk AM comes to mind =D

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Rahnza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's say you're uncomfortable about canning below 40%, and also ignoring hp regen.

And let's consider a shaman who's highly built around HP gear and has about 2000 HP. 40% of 2000 = can't go below 800 HP. We have another shaman who focuses on Wis gear and he has about 1500 HP. 40% of 1500 is 600 HP.

They both start canning for mana. 48 seconds later (18 cannis), shaman 2 is at 40% HP and must stop. He regained approximately 430 mana.

Shaman 1 continues to canni for 16.5 seconds longer than shaman 2, or 6 additional cannis. He's now at 40% HP and regained approximately 575 mana.

So please explain, how does having more HP not assist with mana regen?

Because it will take you more time to make up that extra HP you lost, so overall, doesn't make you regain your HP/Mana any faster. In a situation where you're just soloing things one after another, you care about minimizing the amount of time between pulls, which means maximizing your AC (to lower damage taken, and by extension time spent healing) and regen. Having a higher HP or mana pool will not affect the amount of time between pulls in the long run; it will just maybe give you a little bonus at the very beginning when you arrive at your destination with full HP and mana after having been sitting in EC for a while or whatnot. Having a higher HP or mana pull does help you take down tougher pulls, so if you're going after a single very tough thing rather than an indefinite series of not-that-tough things, yeah, you'll want a large HP/mana pool. Otherwise? It's about minimizing the amount of time between pulls.

[Rahnza]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because it will take you more time to make up that extra HP you lost, so overall, doesn't make you regain your HP/Mana any faster. In a situation where you're just soloing things one after another, you care about minimizing the amount of time between pulls, which means maximizing your AC (to lower damage taken, and by extension time spent healing) and regen. Having a higher HP or mana pool will not affect the amount of time between pulls in the long run; it will just maybe give you a little bonus at the very beginning when you arrive at your destination with full HP and mana after having been sitting in EC for a while or whatnot. Having a higher HP or mana pull does help you take down tougher pulls, so if you're going after a single very tough thing rather than an indefinite series of not-that-tough things, yeah, you'll want a large HP/mana pool. Otherwise? It's about minimizing the amount of time between pulls.

Chain canni is about equivalent to FT9. Shaman 1 is essentially buffed with FT9 for for 48 seconds, and then has to sit and regen mana normally. Shaman two is essentially buffed with FT9 for 64.5 seconds, and then has to sit and regen mana normally. Shaman two is able to regen approximately an extra 150 mana in 16.5 seconds compared to shaman 1. To say this doesn't affect the amount of time between pulls is like saying if they added a 5 minute "wait" period before your clarity could be refreshed, it wouldn't affect the amount of time between pulls. It sure as hell would.

[rachel]

My female ogre shamman has 219 wisdom... muwaahhahahaah

P1999 has a soft cap at 200 wisdom yes.
On eq live every 1 wisdom over 200 gave 1 mana.
On P1999 every 1 wisdom over 200 gives 6/7 mana ? something like that.

I think wisdom is better for my play style , as I mostly cast.
With Canni 2 in kunark and torpor , I see the point of mana doesn't matter as much. Ac/Hp matters more. IF YOU ARE TANKING. Otherwise mana is more important if you have any kind of tank in the raid/group.

Each shammy is different , and I'd say 9 out of 10 go for ac/hp setup. Than quit the server before kunark anyway.

[Dogkota]

For you other 50 sham out there, what's your hp/mana/ac unbuffed? Particularly those of you with 150wis and high hp items

I'm sitting at 1233hp, 2220mana, 677ac unbuffed