Demand the Truth

[paulgiamatti]

Well, there you have it folks. G13 obviously has way too much invested in his conspiracy fetish to consider any kind of capitulation to solid facts and research. His enjoyment of the conspiracy is much more important to him than boring, dull facts. I guess I can't really blame him too much, it is pretty boring.

[iruinedyourday]

G13 if you suicide you can find all the answers out immediately because of Jesus. I think you are onto something, I suggest getting to the bottom of this immediately!

[Fael]

Genuinely curious all the twin tower conspiracy people:

What does the melting point have to do with anything. The question I would think is at what temperature is the load bearing capacity of the steel degraded to the point of no longer be able to bear the weight.

I would imagine those temperatures are vastly different.
Dolic

[indiscriminate_hater]

the speed of sound in steel is roughly 20,000 ft/sec. any impact on the base steel structure would have propagated to the base in less than 0.08 seconds.

and the dynamic impact is a great point that no one seems to care about. sure, you can piggyback a 200-pound person, but that person jumps off a roof onto your back, you're sure as hell not standing up after.

also, the burning temperature of jet fuel is its point of combustion, not how hot the surrounding environment can become due to this combustion. dry wood burns at around 450F, but house and brush fires can reach several thousand degrees. how do you think we're able to melt steel in the first place?

how fucking hard is that to understand?

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Dr3am [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"I don't care about any of that. I want to know physically how the towers collapsed. I want to know why there was controlled demolition of tower 7. Those are the only questions I want answered. I don't care about anything beyond those two specific issues.

Answer my questions please."

I did a report on this for college years ago and I remember some of the details, so here goes. It has been a while so my details might be off here or there, but you get the picture.

1) Why did the steel girders melt at such low temperatures?
The answer to this lies within something called phase transitions when you heat metal. Sure the melting point of steel occurs much higher than jet fuel burns, but we don't need to melt the girders to make the building fall. At 700f industrial steel goes through its first phase transition and loses more than half of its tensile strength.
If you investigate the building itself you find that the steel coating the outside of the building is connected to a steel core in the middle of the building via steel trusses. These trusses keep the skin of the building in place, and as major wind forces hit the building it spreads the stress along the skin, through the trusses, and into the interior of the build. When the tensile strength of the buildings gave out, the trusses softened, causing the outside skin to buckle. Once this happened, the weigh to of the building above no longer was supported by the skin of the building in that area, resulting in the top of the building pushing down into nothing. This resulted in a collapse of the top of the building via the 6 stories of melted trusses. Look at it like a straw, and when you push straight down on the top of a straw it holds far more weight than it should due to the skin of the straw reinforcing itself throught its length. Now take the same straw and fold it then try to push down again- because the skin is no longer aligned the weight on top causes it to almost immediately give and no longer hold weight.

2) The buildings fell at the speed of freefall- had you dropped a penny from the top floor at the beginning of the collapse, it would impact the ground at the same time the top floor did.
This is true and the reasons behind it are amazing to consider. The building design (that I allude to above) was created for each floor to hold the static weight of all floors above it. In each case the buildings were struck with between 20 and 40 floors above them- and when they fell their weight became dynamic and not static. When that dynamic weight pushed on the floors below, it actually pulverized them because the static weight is nowhere near as immense as the dynamic weight. Bear in mind these buildings were not normal office buildings- they occupied an entire NY city block. Each. Their dynamic weight was so immense that the floors below could not even begin to resist it- they simply pulverized into dust. The forces involved when an entire city block sized 20 to 40 story building bears down on another force is hard to imagine much less calculate.

3) Tower 7 fell like a controlled demolition.
The lower floors of Tower 7 were completely obliterated by the falling debris by the trade centers, and all the load bearing structures on that floor were decimated. A key structural support that held the entire building together, at the center of the building, was destroyed. This is why the building was evacuated and expected to fall, and why it fell within its own footprint. It's actually a miracle that it stood as long as it did.

4) The twin towers fell like a controlled demolition.
http://www.cleveland.com/science/ind...1_attacks.html
Halfway down on the right hand side you will see a picture of the second tower collapsing at the initiation of the collapse. You can clearly see from this picture that the tower top fell to the left and then down, because the plane hollowed out and softened the support structures on the left of that tower.

A plausible explanation. Exactly what I had asked for, thank you.

[Champion_Standing]

Alex Jones proved 9/11 was an inside job years ago.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Now another question. Without implying conspiracy but possibly implying government incompetence. Why were there no birds in the air in the just under eighteen minutes between tower one and tower two getting hit and then of course the Pentagon getting hit over a half hour later?

[ManosMan]

Again... READ THE POPULAR MECHANICS ARTICLE.

No Stand-Down Order
Claim: No fighter jets were scrambled from any of the 28 Air Force bases within close range of the four hijacked flights. "On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C.," says the Web site emperors-clothes.com. "They failed to do their job." "There is only one explanation for this," writes Mark R. Elsis of StandDown.net. "Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11."

FACT: On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked—the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.

[G13]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, there you have it folks. G13 obviously has way too much invested in his conspiracy fetish to consider any kind of capitulation to solid facts and research. His enjoyment of the conspiracy is much more important to him than boring, dull facts. I guess I can't really blame him too much, it is pretty boring.

What facts?

The NIST Report is propaganda. Not facts.

Please show me any other tall building in history that ever collapsed within it's footprint (at freefall speed) due to fire

NIST never factored in fire accelerants in their report. This is standard for all building fire investigations.

More than 1000 architects and engineers disagree with NIST's claim that fires brought down building 7. That list is growing. No engineer peer reviewed the NIST report nor was the final report signed off by one. Go ahead. Read it. No engineer listed on the report was ever given all the evidence. On the contrary, the evidence was divided up between different groups of investigators/engineers who looked at individual evidence in a vacuum. Not within the context of a macro investigation as a whole.

The NIST computer model did not match the actual collapse

The NIST report ignored testimony from several key witnesses, such as Matthys Levy which contradicted their claims as to the actual time the fire started. This is crucial because their testimony confirms fires started in the building before the WTC collapse. Not after.

NIST lied about the duration and temperatures of the fires in their report

NIST has never published their modeling data. They also ignored all physical and eyewitness testimony that conflicted with their report

NIST never calculated thermal conductivity in their bogus models. Steel doesn't conduct heat? They also never calculated thermal expansion of the concrete floors as well. It's called "rigging the game" to achieve the desired results = propaganda and lies

NIST completely omitted sheer studs from their model. I can't tell you how critical this is and how that fact alone obliterates that bogus post you want to trumpet. In their original preliminary report they did in fact report these studs. They were omitted in the final report. This all has to do with their bogus theory regarding thermal expansion.

NIST completely ignored all eyewitness reports of explosions before the building came down

They had to do all this trickery to discover a "new kind of collapse" never seen before in the history of buildings

All your government ever does is lie to you

Wake up

[paulgiamatti]

Yeah yeah, and Robert Zemeckis somehow knew about the ghoulish plan to fly airliners into the world trade center and tried to warn us in Back to the Future. We get it. Can you just go back to getting high now?