Anita Sarkeesian

[iruinedyourday]

Sorry for the swears, I'm just trying to illustrate that like bottom rung movies, are more adult than top tear games and I think that's WTFBBQ.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I don't have a problem with swears, I'm more confused as to how you got to your opinion of agreeing with Anita after claiming that you've played the game. Your claim that it's childish is subjective as well without any examples to back it up.

Not trying to flame ya here, I'm honestly trying to figure out how you come to such conclusions.

[LulzSect]

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[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by LulzSect [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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That show is supposed to be pretty funny. I'll probably pick it up after I finish re-watching Azumangadaioh.

[Grimfan]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have little doubt that if you wrote a deep and real story that takes place in a strip club or den of sexual deviance Anita Sarkeesian would stand behind you.

If you made a game about shooting people in the mall, and going to the strip club and pressing triangle over and over again to listen to girls moan and dance around doing nothing to move the story forward, she would call you out as being a bad game designer/writer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't want to assume what game you're talking about here. But if you're talking about the Grand Theft Auto series then we've got a slight issue. Lets use the most complex Grand Theft Auto game from a story standpoint if that's okay with you, GTA 5, because of the multiple protagonists has, by far, the most complex story that I've seen from a GTA game. If you look at the protagonists they are all meant to be hated from one direction or another, none of them are good people, they're robbers, murderers, thugs, misogynists, assholes, druggies, etc.

They all have good sides as well, Michael is a family man trying to do what is best to keep his family together while breaking it apart. Franklin is trying to make money to get out of the hood, he doesn't want to be dragged down by his past. Trevor really believes in loyalty and friendship, and he would do anything for his crew.

So the issue I have with the strip club being toted as shallow is because these men are all deviants. You're meant to try and live a life in their shoes and really you direct them from place to place. The designers are giving you a choice to see how those characters react while getting a lap dance etc and it's supposed to be uncomfortable. In some cases, the strip club is the only way they can get away from the daily routine of their lives and experience something that isn't robbing or killing. And I'd say for Michael it's the only way to get away from the family that he is both running from and trying to keep together.

I'm not saying that you couldn't have a character walk into a strip club, have the camera go high and let us imply all of this, but putting us in the seat of the character makes more of an impact.

I would like to state though that it's all up to interpretation, you could say that the developers wanted us to get off to pixelated boobs and to make us aroused to keep playing the game longer. Heck, there are strip clubs in the multiplayer where you can yell into a mic, and I am sure that relegating those women to a minigame is pretty offensive to some. But for me I find all of those scenes really uncomfortable, and it just brings it home how lonely and sad the characters I am playing are.

[Grimfan]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry for the swears, I'm just trying to illustrate that like bottom rung movies, are more adult than top tear games and I think that's WTFBBQ.

I do not think you and I play games the same way.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have a problem with swears, I'm more confused as to how you got to your opinion of agreeing with Anita after claiming that you've played the game. Your claim that it's childish is subjective as well without any examples to back it up.

Not trying to flame ya here, I'm honestly trying to figure out how you come to such conclusions.

Tryin' not to flame either, maybe we can both turn over a new leaf kaga.

Well I'm not as well spoken as Anita obviously, but those are just my opinions. Since they are opinions you are free to disagree. I'm arguing that most games are poorly written tripe, some are good.

As far as examples, I guess when I play most games I find it extremely easy to roll my eyes through the back of my skull when i listen to bad acting, bad writing, on top of ugly unappealing character design.

As far as examples to back up my opinion, this:

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Devs are working hard on making better games, but its still very hard for them, the industry is a wild west of nerd power.

Even this game, Firewatch, its likely going to be good for a game story, but I still get some pretty lame video gamey bad acting vibes from it in its pax treailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d02lhvvVSy8

Point is, it is my opinion that most games are poorly written and tropey badly directed and Anita has a similar opinion. We may disagree about Red Dead Redemption, a game that I think is almost perfect (until they yank the controls out of your hand and *SPOILERS* force you to die at the end) but she has problems with some of it, whatever though, no big deal.

We don't share all the same views, but both of our wants are the same, deeper stronger better more original content in video games. There are plenty of good games but we want more to be better. Shouldn't be a problem...

All that said her war with 4channers if that's what you specifically want to talk about, I cannot comment much on, but based on my experience on this forum I wouldn't surprised if some pretty awful horrible people were saying some pretty awful horrible things to her and she, who personally puts her self out there, was in the right to be scared, offended and angered, where as they most likely didnt. But again, my harmless opinion.

But hey idk all the facts (nor do I really find any regarding that subject relevant) so maybe not maybe she is bad, all I know is unless she's kicking a dog in an elevator or saying gay marriage is a sin, I dont really care.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Grimfan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't want to assume what game you're talking about here. But if you're talking about the Grand Theft Auto series then we've got a slight issue. Lets use the most complex Grand Theft Auto game from a story standpoint if that's okay with you, GTA 5, because of the multiple protagonists has, by far, the most complex story that I've seen from a GTA game. If you look at the protagonists they are all meant to be hated from one direction or another, none of them are good people, they're robbers, murderers, thugs, misogynists, assholes, druggies, etc.

Totally agree, great game. Rockstar as far as I'm concerned (surprisingly because they are AAA and very successful, usually signs that you are not indi and cool) are the most independent and least tropey of all the game developers out there (with many great close seconds).

One thing I found sad about GTA5 though was the strip club sequence in particular. I brought 4 people over in separate instances to play GTA5, they were not gamers.

At social occasions since then, despite all the fun they had playing the game, all 4 of them made denigrating jokes about the strip clubs.

To make a long post short, because of that scene they all championed the game publicly as tripe. Sad because there was some great stuff in there!

OK one of the four only talks about how he beat up white trash dudes while they BBQ near the hospital.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well I'm not as well spoken as Anita obviously, but those are just my opinions. Since they are opinions you are free to disagree. I'm arguing that most games are poorly written tripe, some are good.

I'm not going to disagree with you one bit that most games are garbage. I refuse to give money to any company anymore because out of the past 20 or so new games I've purchased (by that I mean excluding classics I know were good that I re-purchased via steam etc.) all but 2 of them were absolute garbage.

My issue with Anita isn't her claim that game development is a shit pile, it's her reasoning behind it. If you watch her videos, if you read her posts/tweets/blogs, she blames it all on the representation of women in video games. She doesn't say that writing is poor because writing is poor, she says that it's poor only because of how women are portrayed. Not only does she not acknowledge a single other issue in writing/development in gaming, she outright will dismiss many of the other issues in her rants. That's the problem I have with her and why her goal in 'fixing gaming' is not something that I agree with. That's why it's simply a feminist agenda in my and many others' minds.

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Point is, it is my opinion that most games are poorly written and tropey badly directed and Anita has a similar opinion. We may disagree about Red Dead Redemption, a game that I think is almost perfect (until they yank the controls out of your hand and *SPOILERS* force you to die at the end) but she has problems with some of it, whatever though, no big deal.

We don't share all the same views, but both of our wants are the same, deeper stronger better more original content in video games. There are plenty of good games but we want more to be better. Shouldn't be a problem...

That's where you and I disagree. I have more than enough reason to believe that that's not what she wants at all. She doesn't want video games to be better, she wants to inject her opinions into a medium that she would otherwise want nothing to do with and she's found the perfect platform from which to do so. Only very recently has she started this image of herself as someone who loves video games and because of that love she wants to fix the industry. In the past she was very open about not wanting anything to do with video games and despising them simply because they were another misogynistic medium.

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But hey idk all the facts (nor do I really find any regarding that subject relevant) so maybe not maybe she is bad, all I know is unless she's kicking a dog in an elevator or saying gay marriage is a sin, I dont really care.

I know you aren't saying because they don't have those beliefs that they are incapable of being considered by you to be a bad person, but I want you to know that the way you express yourself it seems like you are saying that because they don't have those beliefs that they are incapable of being considered a bad person by you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's where you and I disagree. I have more than enough reason to believe that that's not what she wants at all. She doesn't want video games to be better, she wants to inject her opinions into a medium that she would otherwise want nothing to do with and she's found the perfect platform from which to do so.

Myabe so, but I ask you to watch this section of one of her videos, again if you have already. Not only does she not mention that the protagonsit is either a boy or a woman, but she champions it as handling subject matter people assume she thinks is offlimits based on her concepts as an off and on value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_RPr9DwMA#t=1462

It's a really good example of her challenging the games industry to up the anti regarding the content of their story driven games.