Class XP Penalties

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why should they make this one and not the others though. What makes this worthy and not other fixes?

Because like what I already replied/explained to you regarding this, people didn't stop playing over root/snare. It's not about making the game easier for you, but fixing a flaw that cause people to loose interest in the game. Generally it's "if you only like a hybrid class then gtfo". It's like you just want it easier with root/snare, while others just don't want to be excluded from the game/groups entirely. This is something SOE devs realized and fixed, once people caught on anyway and started out casting hybrids. If this had never been fixed on live, likely populations would have shifted to generally how it has here on p99 with unplayed classes. That's a major flaw that just eats up dev time.

At least they bothered to fix it. Look at what happened to Creature Handler in SWG. It had problems, their fix was to offer a respec to another class, then they said "oh look, no one plays CR any longer, lets just delete the class". Well yeah, rather than bothering to fix it, and SWG devs were notorious for that, they just deleted the class stealthily rather than bothering to fix it and spending the dev time to do it. That's an example of a really bad example with how to do with a major flaw. But they were too busy crafting the secret patch, NGE, which outright killed the game. It's about disconnect with the player-base, bad development, waste of development time. Always a bad thing, then you loose players.

[fadetree]

There is an argument to be made based on magnitude, which is what day is saying I think, plus a timeline argument of duration, but...still I don't see them doing this. And they would have to go through lengthy justifications on all the other things, as dal mentioned.

[Baldur]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why should they make this one and not the others though. What makes this worthy and not other fixes?

There have been lots of posts throughout this thread that I think have answered your question, but I'll try to answer it again.

The class exp penalties are detrimentally affecting peoples experience in the game with other players. Being refused a group because of the class you chose is not a fun experience. Not being able to keep up with your friends because you chose a hybrid and they did not is not fun. So much so that a couple people have linked stats backing this up in that hybrids are the least played classes on the server.

Having root and snare stack is just a nicety for classes that have both spells and doesn't detrimentally affect your play experience with other players. Someone isn't going to deny you a group because your root and snare don't stack. Or because enchant metals take a jacinth, or pretty much any other change that happens with Velious or post Velious.

[Zaela]

Balancing is about responding to how players are actually playing the game.

"Timelining" balance changes seems like a weird decision to me. Non-balance related content changes, sure. But balancing on a timeline is anti-balancing. It's balancing it for the people who were playing in 2000, not the players on p99 who are playing right now.

2cp

[Rattle Squirrell]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why should they make this one and not the others though. What makes this worthy and not other fixes?

as stated numerous times above........this change would *in my opinion* bring more players to the server, and keep the ones here.....here.

not only that....when they take away the exp penalty I think we are going to see a huge increase in the lower level zones again, and since they are already pretty full at peak hours you may see alot of zones that are completely unutilized right now start filling up too with new players.

[Rattle Squirrell]

Originally Posted by Zaela [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Balancing is about responding to how players are actually playing the game.

"Timelining" balance changes seems like a weird decision to me. Non-balance related content changes, sure. But balancing on a timeline is anti-balancing. It's balancing it for the people who were playing in 2000, not the players on p99 who are playing right now.

2cp

No idea what you just said. If most peoples defense is that "it wasn't fixed until velious" and velious was released 6-7 months after Kunark. It doesn't seem like 4 years later is a suitable time to fix something that was obviously wrong.....

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Baldur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There have been lots of posts throughout this thread that I think have answered your question, but I'll try to answer it again.

The class exp penalties are detrimentally affecting peoples experience in the game with other players. Being refused a group because of the class you chose is not a fun experience. Not being able to keep up with your friends because you chose a hybrid and they did not is not fun. So much so that a couple people have linked stats backing this up in that hybrids are the least played classes on the server.

Having root and snare stack is just a nicety for classes that have both spells and doesn't detrimentally affect your play experience with other players. Someone isn't going to deny you a group because your root and snare don't stack. Or because enchant metals take a jacinth, or pretty much any other change that happens with Velious or post Velious.

Hybrid penalty may or may not help.

I'm a Druid, we regularly get turned away from groups because we can't heal like a cleric, DPS like a rogue or CC like an enchanter. And we don't even have an exp penalty. You're on a server of min-maxers. Removing an exp penalty may get you a few groups... But people will still reject rangers because they view them as a mediocre class. You can hold aggro but won't tank as well as a knight or heal as well as a paladin or DPS as well as a rogue or pull as well as a monk** (unless outdoors, then F monk pullers).

If anything, it will end up with warriors never getting group invites since knights have real snap aggro and tank just as well in a group. Which would have a certain irony to it. Remove hybrid penalty so all classes get group invites. New class gets left on outside cause in classic they were designed poorly for their intended group role.

[Zaela]

Originally Posted by Rattle Squirrell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No idea what you just said.

Just saying. If people are refusing to group with certain classes flat out, that's a balance issue. It should be addressed now because of those people, not later because of some magic timeline. Balance and game design should trump classicness when it comes down to it. As it sometimes does (non-classic nerfs).

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Zaela [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just saying. If people are refusing to group with certain classes flat out, that's a balance issue. It should be addressed now because of those people, not later because of some magic timeline. Balance and game design should trump classicness when it comes down to it. As it sometimes does (non-classic nerfs).

These are pretty damn few and far between.

Pet aggro / non-weapon Dual Wield when pet spam was being used to down PoSky
Ivandyrs Hoop recharging/unresistability to instagib dragons

What really should've been nuked earlier than it was:

Invis pulling - that was just dumb as hell

What really should still get nuked:

SoulFire clickable by all classes
Donal's shouldn't be 20s and chain able on a single target

... But that wouldn't be classic so it's in. Honestly, the pet aggro/DW were fixed and Ivandyr's should be unnerfed to be rechargeable and just make it not be clickable on a few raid mobs.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a Druid, we regularly get turned away from groups because we can't heal like a cleric, DPS like a rogue or CC like an enchanter. And we don't even have an exp penalty.

er more like druid is just so over saturated and most groups just don't want two of them in the same group, especially with lack of stacking here. Running my capped cleric on live, it was always a good thing having a druid around. Either a druid or a ranger anyway, always tried to add one to my group. Also my pref was to have a ranger that played like a ranger in my group, MA and CC can be quite valuable in many situations if done right, not to mention outdoor pulling skills. Since there are few rangers here, makes sense dungeon overcrowding is so prevalent on this server, effecting everyone.