Clothesing Threads

[Locust]

(i was always a believer in deny til you die)

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My issue with your handling of the Naggy situation is three fold.

1) Sirken said the issue was done and over. A mans word is supposed to mean something. Just because Unbrella has a micro dick doesn't mean he should be able to harangue you enough to raise the issue from the dead after the case was closed.

2) You show no respect whatsoever. I actively dislike you and I used to actively dislike Sirken but we've buried that hatchet. We had a long talk and ironed out some issues. You still seem to have a very big hard on for BDA. You can say otherwise but ball don't lie. You kept focusing on BDA in regards to the Sev situation unnecessarily when the real issue as it's been said 100x is someone that didn't have FTE killed the dragon. It's inconsequential as to why other people were on the hate list. They needed to get off the list and wait for the reset.

3) BDA is suspended for Class R Naggy for helping to kill a FFA Naggy. Don't cross the streams. TMO blatantly trains BDA in Fear. It was signed off by Unbrella a fucking guild leader. We have 1080p fraps of the encounter and the result is a slap on the wrist. BDA kills 20% of Naggy and now we're out a class R Naggy which puts our next encounter something like 4 months away. I feel like BDA has been singled out numerous times for whatever reason. The first suspension with Trak under completely murky rules, then this Naggy, and now singling us out for Sev when we did nothing wrong.

I want, just like everyone wants, clear and consistent rulings using precedence as a guide. I want a logical thought process and fair rulings across the board.

You're right. I show no respect to this raid community by coming here and explaining the reasoning behind our decisions. I'll stop making that mistake from here on out.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right. I show no respect to this raid community by coming here and explaining the reasoning behind our decisions. I'll stop making that mistake from here on out.

Look I'm trying to have a legitimate conversation with you. You know that's not what I said. It's not easy to be in a position of power, to have decisions picked apart, but that's the burden of leadership.

[Zadrian]

I haven't been active for years. Someone tell me why helping another guild down a mob considered bad? How is it any different than joint raids?

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look I'm trying to have a legitimate conversation with you. You know that's not what I said. It's not easy to be in a position of power, to have decisions picked apart, but that's the burden of leadership.

I'm the only GM dumb enough to come here and explain our position on things. It wears on me, and I'm tired of it - even when we make the right call we get hammered. That's my own fault for putting myself here in front of the community.

We made our decision, I explained our reasoning - which I still stand behind, and won't continue to argue over - and that's where I'm going to leave it from now on.

[Swish]

I feel Derubael's pain, you try to do something good for the community, try to help it... and everyone shits on you no matter what you say or do.

Right now someone else posted a thread about red in server chat and there's zero haters on it. Can't help but feel singled out pals. There used to be a thriving happy community on these boards.

[Thana8088]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There used to be a thriving happy community on these boards.

And you used to be one of them! <3

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel Derubael's pain, you try to do something good for the community, try to help it... and everyone shits on you no matter what you say or do.

Right now someone else posted a thread about red in server chat and there's zero haters on it. Can't help but feel singled out pals. There used to be a thriving happy community on these boards.

People are mainly just looking for a reason to lash out. Any reason can be justified when your angry.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm the only GM dumb enough to come here and explain our position on things. It wears on me, and I'm tired of it - even when we make the right call we get hammered. That's my own fault for putting myself here in front of the community.

We made our decision, I explained our reasoning - which I still stand behind, and won't continue to argue over - and that's where I'm going to leave it from now on.

Separate yourself from the decision man. This isn't an attack on you. You can't make everyone happy all the time but this wasn't the right call. I'm not in it for a pound of flesh, Taken skating doesn't bother me, but the logic behind the decision doesn't add up for me, nor does it add up for other people.

FTE is paramount. That's been the commandment. It's completely irrelevant that anyone else was on the aggro list while Taken downed the mob. That has NEVER been a point of debate before and we've had plenty of shitshow FFA encounters with 5+ guilds on the aggro list. Hell, every single Noble cycle has as many guilds on the encounter list as are present for the fight. Using that justification for your decision is causing strife because that justification has NEVER been used before. Yes, the encounter was a shitshow. It always is, but unless BDA or TMO or AG were using that aggro to delay someone eleses attempt on Sev or kiting him around the zone then it's irrelevant.

[Rais]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^ how is it not a similar situation? BDA jumped on a mob that Taken had FTE on, and ended up losing a Nagafen. Chest has been pointing out how the situations are similar and should demand similar punishment since the decision came up.

If we're going to draw parallels and precedent and cite that as written-in-stone rules, then BDA should have been suspended for a week - a full suspension - just like FE got when they jumped a TMO FTE.

Here's another similar situation:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=152382

IB was suspended for... jumping an FTE. Granted, this was a "kill steal" but the actual rule violated was the same one BDA violated in that Nagafen dispute. Why is BDA not calling for themselves to be suspended for a week? Precedent, which we are putting so much stock in, states they should sit out for at least that long.

This one is easy to answer. Because they (IB in your example) have numerous infractions of the same rule with in days apart. Thus they were suspended for a week.

Precedent has been Sirken gives a guild a time out on the very next dragon spawn (If it's on their rotation up next they have it off or if FFA is up same deal) . Every single instance of a FTE issue of a guild jumping it, interfering and or taking has lead to the next dragon off. In those instances of guilds who have multiple offenses of this issue were given a week.

It simply boils down to did Taken have FTE? No? Then they broke the rules when they decided to kill the fucking thing anyways. It isn't much easier to go off of than that. Anyone else on the encounter logs don't mean shit since they had no need to remove themselves from a encounter agro list that they don't even see.

If you want to start going back and saying you can punish people for just being on the agro list of encounters they didn't have FTE, then no one would be raiding at all for the next 5 months. Being on the list alone isn't breaking the rules.

TL/DR

Taken gained agro without FTE. They MUST Die/Camp/Zone. Next up on the agro list, they do the same and so on till it resets. If those guilds don't do it, and kill the dragon then they break the FTE rules that are clear.

It's that simple and you or Sirken are reading too much into it and making it harder than it should be. You have every fucking guild on the server in unison saying this.

End result Taken broke the rules with FTE no matter what. They should have the next FFA Sev off if this is their first offense. If it's not, then a week.