Casinos

[Estu]

Originally Posted by talian21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

MQ turns something that you should be questing, into something that you can simply buy. RMT'ing is buying stuff (with real money) and the No. 1 thing ppl are willing to pay for, as one example, is Epic's.

This does not even begin to cover how much enjoyment of the game is lost when someone actually tries to quest something, only to find some asshole farmer cock-blocking them, often leaving them no choice but to pay for it. With MQ'ing gone, MQ farmers will disappear, and ppl can actually *play* instead of pay.

Another way to think about it is this? What possible benefit does MQ have to anyone, but some asshole platfarmer, while ruining the fun of someone trying to actually play the game? The NODROP tag exists for a reason, and it's not to use some exploit to circumvent it.

This is rather off-topic but I'll bite.

1) Suppose you remove MQs. The demand for the relevant items is the same, but now the people who need those items are camping them instead of the people selling the MQs. How does this affect people trying to get the items? If a camp is annoying because it's in high demand before MQs are removed, the camp will still be in high demand after MQs are removed. I don't see how the experience of being annoyed at a camp being highly contested is different whether you're competing with a fellow person who needs that item themselves versus a so-called "asshole farmer cockblocker".

2) What possible benefit does MQ have to people? It gives them the ability to avoid doing annoying, highly-contested camps. If I can farm up 8k in a few hours doing a camp I enjoy and pay for a JBoots MQ, I'd rather do that then go to OOT and deal with the highly-contested AC camp. Clear benefit.

I'd like to add that one can make valid arguments against MQing - e.g. that its prevalence on this server is not classic since it was largely unknown on live during classic era. I just don't believe the points you brought up are valid ones.

[zforrestal]

Originally Posted by kruptcy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ive never seen any two people miss the point of something so hilariously. I chalked the first guy up to trolling, but I know you don't have that capacity. Laid out in plain English for you:

You don't need rules to prevent something if that thing doesn't exist. You didn't need laws against drunk driving when driving didn't exist. In a parallel case, on live during the Kunark era, you didn't need to make rules to combat RMTs because RMTs didn't exist (on a disruptive scale). Now that things have changed, new rules have to be put into place to address problems with these new developments.

Does this make sense to you now or are you still dumb?

Yet I use a ridiculous situation, and you FAILED to miss the bigger picture.. *facepalm* also why don't you just stop with the name calling.... our views are different doesn't make any one of us less intelligent, but to attack the reader with insults based on a difference of views, shows who has the real lack of intelligence. So say what you want to say, but do it without the very lame insults like dumb, or calling people an idiot when you say things like people were driving 200 years ago, referring to motor vehicles.

Anyway, lets seriously figure out how to kill RMTs, yes my scenario was very extreme but regardless it still shows an example of how to kill RMTs (Mind you the "straw-man" vendor idea would mean running a casino would be pointless) I wasn't saying that's what should be done.. but what if RMTs were such an issue that the server was in a lawsuit and was either forced to shut down or figure a way to kill RMTs completely as there is no a solution yet, wouldn't my "straw-man" vendor theory work? (I mean unless people would still buy things even though it's free for them to get, which I highly doubt) would you rather the server shut down, or have everything free and still be able to play EQ on the p99 server?

Now if we can't stop RMTs without greatly changing the game, what about looking at the other problem that was brought up? As Deru pointed out, I don't see what he sees, so I don't know all the issues that come with RMTs. I'm guessing having secure trading would also help with tracking down RMTs. Someone had mentioned to me about something that was released later on, a "vendor mode" to be able to sell your wares. I don't know anything about it, but how he put it, it seemed like it would help with secure trading. Again I don't know anything about it, so I could be wrong.

[kruptcy]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see how the experience of being annoyed at a camp being highly contested is different whether you're competing with a fellow person who needs that item themselves versus a so-called "asshole farmer cockblocker".

I can understand where you are coming from, but I think you overlook all of the level 1 rogues and clerics with their epics. Those low levels would not be able to compete for the relevant camps with their higher level counterparts. Similarly, I was in a KC group recently when a metal pipe dropped. Several people in the group wanted to random against the monk for the item because they could sell the MQ, when the monk himself needed the pipe to advance his epic quest. Eliminating MQs would indeed not eliminate overcrowded camps, but it would eliminate people camping enemies that ONLY drop epic pieces for other classes with MQing for plat in mind.

[talian21]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is rather off-topic but I'll bite.

1) Suppose you remove MQs. The demand for the relevant items is the same, but now the people who need those items are camping them instead of the people selling the MQs. How does this affect people trying to get the items? If a camp is annoying because it's in high demand before MQs are removed, the camp will still be in high demand after MQs are removed. I don't see how the experience of being annoyed at a camp being highly contested is different whether you're competing with a fellow person who needs that item themselves versus a so-called "asshole farmer cockblocker".

2) What possible benefit does MQ have to people? It gives them the ability to avoid doing annoying, highly-contested camps. If I can farm up 8k in a few hours doing a camp I enjoy and pay for a JBoots MQ, I'd rather do that then go to OOT and deal with the highly-contested AC camp. Clear benefit.

These are excellent arguments for rich players. And also for players who want items without having to put in the work for them. It pretty much leaves everyone else (those who are not rich, and those *who'd actually like to play (not pay) the game*) in the cold.

1.) Because the asshole cockblocker will no longer be there to compete with.
2.) I would argue that letting you get gear you didn't earn is not a benefit to the server, just you.

[Estu]

Originally Posted by talian21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These are excellent arguments for rich players. And also for players who want items without having to put in the work for them. It pretty much leaves everyone else (those who are not rich, and those *who'd actually like to play (not pay) the game*) in the cold.

1.) Because the asshole cockblocker will no longer be there to compete with.
2.) I would argue that letting you get gear you didn't earn is not a benefit to the server, just you.

But I did earn that gear, by earning the plat to buy the MQ. The market has established some value on that piece of gear (say, 8k for Jboots). If I earn that piece of gear by camping it directly or by paying someone else to camp it for me, with platinum that I earned, then either way, I earned it. You're acting like there are "rich players" who just magically have platinum that falls into their laps, but I worked hard to level up characters who are capable of farming money (though not expressedly for that purpose) and to farm money for items I want.

In the sense of your argument, there is not much difference between MQs and any gear being sold on EC. Why should anyone be allowed to buy gear in EC if they didn't "earn" it by camping it themselves? We might as well do away with the entire player economy.

[talian21]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But I did earn that gear, by earning the plat to buy the MQ.

No, you didn't. All you did was earn plat. That does not grant you the "right" to no drop gear. The MQ exploit is based on being able to buy nodrop gear, that is nodrop expressly to *stop* it from being something you can buy.

I repeat: "I have plat" does not equal "I deserve nodrop gear I didn't earn"

[talian21]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the sense of your argument, there is not much difference between MQs and any gear being sold on EC. Why should anyone be allowed to buy gear in EC if they didn't "earn" it by camping it themselves? We might as well do away with the entire player economy.

Etsu, every single solitary thing you have said so far in this thread has been based on one simple fallacy; that there is no difference between droppable, and nodrop gear. There is.

[Priceline]

Originally Posted by talian21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you didn't. All you did was earn plat.

So by this logic anything bought in EC tunnel is not "earned" even though said buyer spent x amount of time farming the plat?

Originally Posted by talian21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The MQ exploit

no, MQ'ing was allowed on live.. its "classic" and not a bannable offense therefore its not an exploit.

Also note that gear is gear regardless if its drop/no drop properties, the RP server on live for example completely ignored this rule by allowing the trade of "no drop" gear as a way of passing down to new recruits.

[Priceline]

Originally Posted by talian21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Etsu, every single solitary thing you have said so far in this thread has been based on one simple fallacy; that there is no difference between droppable, and nodrop gear. There is.

Obligatory:
Prove it!

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by Fountree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Add another restriction to the by now gigantic list of rules on P99. Not classic and not fun. I've never been scammed at a player-run "casino" in years and I've played a ton.

I am for the idea of an NPC run casino though...

Omg just had a thought...make it in that Highkeep gambling area !! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Need to have one in the Maiden's Fancy in Neriak too. Strippers and pulltabs/slot machines.