Spells: 100 MR to resist MR nuke. 350 FR to reduce FR nuke.

[Technique]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No resists and only fulls and partials are better?

A resisted nuke and one that lands for full damage should both be outlier events of the sort determined by a flat chance. Both should be rare exceptions, not the rule.

Everything in between should be subject to being partialed, with the target's resist value determining the lower bound of the damage range over which the partial function's probability curve extends (a normal distribution, preferably with a negative mean and variance < 1). This would make the effect that resists have more reliable across the entire range of values and without diminishing the necessity of dispels/debuffs.

Is that strictly classic? No.

But neither is a system being built around a couple anecdotes claiming "oh, I remember fully resisting around X% of nukes and partialing maybe Y% for about Z% damage at some arbitrary resist value 14 years ago", that leads to nukes being indiscriminately resisted with great frequency, including ones that were historically used as pushback interrupts because of their reliability.

Originally Posted by Colgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the amount of resists you see at like 100-120+ should be enough to convince any caster not to try and cast any of these 0 modifier or -10 modifier nukes on you

Because any caster that's not a necro or a wizard has nukes (or really any damage spells, excepting druid swarm dot line) with negative mods to choose from, huh.

[Nirgon]

^ No, a full resist on a direct damage spell (with no resist mod) from an even con target at 248 fire resist should be the most common thing that happens.

You should have to dispel and debuff a fully resist geared target accordingly to damage them.

This makes the risk vs reward good (hi everquest) both ways with item loot.

If you are confident enough to wear a froglok crown/diamond resist ring? Good. You are risking (something easy to get tbh) for that reward in pvp.

If any arguments arise that try to make it seem "impossible" to harm other players, I am happy to provide strategic details in private [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Minds have been rotted by the current "everything is a lure spell" system.

What WILL be impossible is to just spam lava bolt or whatever on someone fully buffed in a resist suit without dispelling them and/or debuffing them. Item loot is also good to alleviate the "everyone running around in full resist gear at no risk" issue (h8d this about Sullon/non item loot pvp servers... but they were teams so o well). Item loot is also fun, provided you don't have a nervous break down over losing a 9mr necklace or froglok crown (which can't be looted if the killer already has one..). It keeps people logging in and camps contested. People logging in is good, contested areas to seek pvp outside of 50 people waiting on a raid mob spawn is also good.

[Colgate]

i'm not saying you're wrong about casters being weaker after these proposed changes, but what you want isn't classic. the goal of this project is as close to classic and the spirit of classic as possible. there are custom pvp servers(salty's iteration of vztz, rolfron zek, legacy of zek, etc.) out there, i suggest you play there considering haynar has already stated that his aim is to replicate the classic pvp mechanics.

[Dullah]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I take it you want me to bump it back up?

Gonna quit saying what prelim results are, and start making it a suprise.

Hard to please anyone.

H

You'll never please everyone, but if a 29 dmg 2h is doing 50s avg on a caster thats off.

I used an IFS during kunark/velious and it crunched pretty hard. Saw a classic screenshot the other day on bug forum where Rienne was doing 60-70 dmg against another rogue (much higher than 500 ac).

[Dullah]

Best thing you could do for casters is fix the way channeling works because something was done in the last several patches that makes interrupts based on a chance instead of the amount of push. Even if a caster is stuck up in a corner without levitate, they still get interrupted and that isn't right.

[Technique]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^ No, a full resist on a direct damage spell (with no resist mod) from an even con target at 248 fire resist should be the most common thing that happens.

What's the difference between a very low partial (which would most likely occur at that resist value in the type of system I'm proposing) and a full resist?

Damage-wise? Practically nothing.

The difference is that in the former case, spells like shock of lightning that were used to interrupt will still have an effect (hi strategy that nirgon is always talking about but doesn't seem to understand) instead of being resisted so often that it's stupid to even think of casting it.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This makes the risk vs reward good (hi everquest) both ways with item loot.

If you are confident enough to wear a froglok crown/diamond resist ring? Good. You are risking (something easy to get tbh) for that reward in pvp.

When are you going to get it through your head that item loot will not be happening on this server? Stop trying to use it as a justification for ersatz classic resists.

Originally Posted by Colgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the goal of this project is as close to classic and the spirit of classic as possible. there are custom pvp servers(salty's iteration of vztz, rolfron zek, legacy of zek, etc.) out there, i suggest you play there considering haynar has already stated that his aim is to replicate the classic pvp mechanics.

The problem with this approach is that genuinely classic pvp resists were governed by more unknown factors than probably any other subsystem in this game. There's no hard evidence or information upon which to even begin modeling a classic system, the best he can hope to do is align its output with a few foggy recollections of the past.

[Colgate]

nirgon has already stated numerous times there will be outlying spells that have their own unique effects, like shock of lightning, and shouldn't fall under the general resist code

[Technique]

Unless Nirgon is Haynar, then anything he claims is irrelevant.

And Nirgon's not gonna be the one who has to chase down all these exceptions and then spend time cluttering up the codebase with special-case PvP-only rules for all of them just to preserve this artificially classic resist system that's in the works.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Technique [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When are you going to get it through your head that item loot will not be happening on this server? Stop trying to use it as a justification for ersatz classic resists.

Well, Nilbog says he wants it here [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

I was told that there would never be blue sparkle emitters on 39+ caster buffing... I was told bolts would never work/change... I was told invis pulling could never be fixed... I was told the devs have no control over the software they are working with here... I've been told a lot of things over my nearly 4 years posting in the bugs section on this account. Guess how much I listen to naysayers?

I have absolutely 0 control over what goes in. I can only share my experiences playing with the devs. I think from that they are able to put in what they feel is the "closest to classic" thing they can implement... and whatever is patched in I feel like hits the nail on the head pretty hard.

Where the many others in the community and I differ is understanding how this process is going to work. After a change goes in, we need to look around for odds and ends that need to be addressed after a huge mechanical change goes in and constructively report that information, and hopefully they can take care of that too. What I see happening is that usually something that wasn't even working before is implemented and there's some strange behaviors/unintended things that happen as a result. This is just going to happen and is a given for any major change. Instead of using these outliers as an excuse to tear everything down, I'd suggest reporting your findings as specifically as possible. What's even better is Haynar has been all over the bugs section knocking out crazy shit that's been untouched for years. And to be quite honest? He's been super interactive and responsive, I suspect because he takes a lot of pride in his efforts. To that end, if you scum up the Holy of Holies (bugs section).. he is probably going to put you on ignore or worse you may discourage him from wanting to help... which puts us back to... guess where.

There's going to be things to resolve after these changes go in, and I'll do my best to test every single spell on the beta cuz I'm a big classic junkies/sucker. Much moreso than that, there is going to be quite a large play style adjustment for people who aren't familiar with how things SHOULD work... I might be a huge classic junkie, sucker and coach to anyone thinking about quitting as a result.. if yer a good pal 2 me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

- From the desk of Dr. Nirgon DDS, dictated but not read

PS: I guess if your hope was that they couldn't change/fix things to make them classic here and you liked the broken mechanics.... that hope is beginning to wane.. and you better start hoping for classic EQ... cuz it looks like its comin'.

[Technique]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PS: I guess if your hope was that they couldn't change/fix things to make them classic here and you liked the broken mechanics.... that hope is beginning to wane.. and you better start hoping for classic EQ... cuz it looks like its comin'.

Blah blah blah...

Quote me even so much as implying that null's bullshit system should be left ingame and untouched.

Posting nearly fifteen thousand times has given you the endurance to be tirelessly stupid.