Class "R" rotation and Sky about to fall apart

[Tasslehofp99]

Fucking double posts wtf

[wycca]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thank you Nemce. thats essentially what i was looking for.

but i would be curious to know if anyone from Class R disagrees with the logic behind Nemce's post here, or if everyone pretty much shares that opinion.

It's complicated but I agree in part and disagree in part. I don't really like posting in RnF but I'll respond to a couple of things -

- The server is boring for alot of us. There just isn't enough raid content or mobs for people to stay occupied for more than a few hours a week. Being bored is a good recipe for mischief. It is also a good recipe for genuine goodwill amongst helpful souls.

- I honestly believe a ton of Class C guild members are genuinely helpful, I've met several people that are just good people. I also honestly believe that some of them just like causing some chaos because they're bored. I mean, after all, we're discussing this in a 20+ page RnF thread started because of that boredom.

- Raid-wise - There is a huge vacuum right now - there simply needs to be more C guilds. The problem is that the current nature of 32k hp mobs and 16hr FTE jav/autofire fests, is that there is a limited pool of players willing to participate. Likewise, the simple fact is that the #1 guild on most servers on live, traditionally took 60-70% of the kills from the #2 guild. There is, very much like in American politics, not a ton of windows for a new guild or multiple new guilds to be more successful in C. In the end you probably are just going to end up with 2 guilds. There are alot of people in Class R that are just like Nemce said, and yes, it is viewed as the more part-time class mostly. There are also a fair amount of people who LIKED old fashioned races...but absolutely abhor the abomination that winning in Class C/FFA has turned into. I enjoyed finding out that Trak was up, mobilizing our wizards/druids to get us there, then organizing, buffing, and heading down. The first guild there usually got their attempt in before the 2nd guild moved in over their corpses. That's a far cry though from what happens on this server. Heaven forbid, sometimes they'd help them out and cheer them on - but that only happens with Class R raid mobs atm.

- Conclusion - You've got players who would like to be competitive trapped in Class R because they don't want to become like Class C, you've got alot of part-timers in Class R because they like to worry more about having fun than rushing for raid mobs, and you have alot of really bored people in general, but especially so inside of the unhealthy vacuum that is Class C. There is so much (amazing IMO) buy-in into the Class R player-made rotation because of the unhealthy aspects of raiding on this server - specifically, the Class C and FFA practices.

I personally don't think there is some large scale TMO conspiracy. I think they had some bored people be bored and try to gin up some entertainment. It's fun for a bit, but ultimately, GT left the server and it never amounted to much. I reserve the right to change my mind if I see large scale Class C insertion into Class R for mayhem purposes, but that just hasn't seemed to have happened despite all the noise about it.

Changing raid rules and raid mob behavior can fix these problems. The truth is, three simple changes would make this server have a much healthier raid scene come Velious IMO - eliminate classes in Velious (also move VP to class rotation so R guilds can gear up for Velious like Class C has), leave in the (now R) lockout mechanism in some form in Velious only (3, 2, or 1, depending on mob, easier to hardest roughly, ignore lockouts after 24hrs), insert code into raid mob agro such that it is /random who they engage using the agro list from 0-1.5sec after the pop. I don't think any change can fix the travesty that is 32k hp mobs (altho the raid agro mechanic would certainly eliminate alot of abuse). Revisit rules later to determine if a Class system or other changes are needed by reviewing success of preliminary rules.

[bigshowtime]

Holy fuk u guys surprised there ain't enough mobs for 15 raiding guilds on kunark lol

Cum join me on red where we delete vp loots and bathe in pixels

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by bigshowtime [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holy fuk u guys surprised there ain't enough mobs for 15 raiding guilds on kunark lol

Cum join me on red where we delete vp loots and bathe in pixels

No ty red is dead

[bigshowtime]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No ty red is dead

Naw u just hiding on blue pal it's ok to admit

But please continue crying over getting 1 raid mob per 3 weeks, but hey I guess that's better than what azrael gets so maybe u doin the rite thing

[sulpher01]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to chime in briefly. It's not that class c benefits from assisting R guilds. It's that the different classes represent radically different play styles. If class c is allowed to interact with class R then the play style of C bleeds over into R. This means that there is less distinction between the two classes thus frustrating the purpose of the class system. I believe it would best fulfill the purpose of this segregated system to disallow class c interaction with class R on a raid level.

Too many people think of the restricted class to be made of guilds that are not capable of completing with class C. However, this is not the case. The restricted class exists because however capable guilds may be, they do not wish to match the play style of the competitive class. Skill and ability have no bearing here. It is strictly a desire to match one play style or the other. This is why it is imperative that the lines be distinct and the segregation remain absolute.

Holy shit... how do you all only have one member with any brains? Xasten can I have your babies?

[Socratic]

Cobblestone overall good post but you lose me when your solution is essentially a modified Class R rotation for everyone with randomized FTE. I'll pass on taking away the only real difference EQ has vs. other MMOs in favor of people who simply want more for doing less. If your guild doesn't want to put in the work, and adjust to the system in a way that makes you competitive, then that's up to you, but don't take away competition because you don't want to compete. That would be simply narrow-minded.

@ this whole thread. How many TMO alts actually raid with class R guilds? My bet is less than 10. Honestly raiding in TMO (if you don't want to be a scrub low-contributor) is demanding, and very very few people have the time and/or patience to go screw around on an alt in another guild. I would say less than 1% of the population is petty enough to actually raid actively on an alt in another guild just to screw with class R. This entire thing has absolutely no impact on the problems of this server. It's entirely tinfoil hat.

The people who love drama just post in these threads to keep you all spinning. They don't actually have the determination to level an alt and raid in a class R guild just to try to make things more untenable. (Unbrella doesn't even have a lvl 60 alt, he's super scrub, if he devotes time into an alt to screw with class R then he'd prob be equally as uninspired, and have no impact at all)

What made EQ work was a steady flow of tiered content to separate guilds with different playstyles. We don't have that here. Velious will help a lot, but after a year or two the same problems will return. It's a fact of life here. Trying to force your playstyle on the server is NOT a solution (it wasn't a solution for TMOs stance to be "screw you guys, we're keeping all the mobs" either btw, not that we started it, IB was here first afaik, ask them, they will brag about it).

Are things really that bad right now? Honestly I get the whole issue with making room for new guilds but that's a small price to pay for how far this server has come. I see a whole bunch of guilds on this server pretty much thriving under the current system, and it's always nice to see a few Class R guilds come out trying to contest FFA mobs. Taken got FFA Naggy a few weeks ago (BDA broke raid rules to help them do it, but still), and it's not the first time a Class R guild has won a FFA target.

The current system definitely allows for guilds to move from Class R to Class C utilizing FFA targets to judge their ability to succeed. Some one-sided overhaul is not what we need.

Things are pretty damn good right now (minus autofire) imo. There will always be problems but there are quite a lot of guilds on this server that are doing quite well.

[Godefroi]

Unbrella has a level 60 cleric and his alt-time is spent forum questing for great mmo justice!

pras

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by bigshowtime [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Naw u just hiding on blue pal it's ok to admit

But please continue crying over getting 1 raid mob per 3 weeks, but hey I guess that's better than what azrael gets so maybe u doin the rite thing

More like 30 or so in the past week.

[bigshowtime]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More like 30 or so in the past week.

U still counting tranix and skarlon as raid targets ?