Freedom From Atheism Foundation

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No I recognize that materialism is a form of spirituality. You're just changing out worship of a creator with worship of the creation. Man becomes his own god. That's the whole point of evolution. Its a continuation of Gnostic mysticism.

on the right track. my personal stance is that none of the argument actually or will ever matter in a person's day to day life. evolution proved or not doesn't change the fact of our existence as an existent being within a greater being, but that level of greater being cannot, at the same time, be stretched or construed to a greater totality that proves a creator being because that falls into the a priori which inherently cannot allow for a creator being to have come from nothing (aquinas). have you read any of the writings of st. john of the cross? worth it with the usages of language as having given a commonality within which a god can exist between and outside of individuals. some medieval metaphysics that are a lot more interesting (absolutely a subjective claim) than current particle metaphysics that send people on tangents of infinitude which link back with (more so) to the infinitude that mr. plato put into place with his notions.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Lron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"evolution proved or not doesn't change the fact of our existence as an existent being within a greater being"

This is not a "fact", far from it. It is you attempting to find philosophers that share your theistic delusions. Any crazy person can find another crazy person that was smart but had bad ideas, and adhere to a logical fallacy, an appeal to authority.

You are practicing Confirmation Bias.

so you willed yourself into being? get with contemporary philosophy and out of the 1800s

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Lron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, how did your god will itself into being?

If a god can just always exist, so could have matter.

Sorry to humiliate you.

that you're no better than rellapse with your clinging to a notion of trolldom that died with the advent of the internet is really funny

[Rellapse40]

what do you expect from a dick sucking fgt

[Herpa Derp]

This whole thread is pretty toplel.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Lron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"evolution proved or not doesn't change the fact of our existence as an existent being within a greater being"

This is not a "fact", far from it. It is you attempting to find philosophers that share your theistic delusions. Any crazy person can find another crazy person that was smart but had bad ideas, and adhere to a logical fallacy, an appeal to authority.

You are practicing Confirmation Bias.

That might be the first thing you've said that makes sense. And I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately for you it also fits how the theory of evolution was popularized to a tee.

"one belief that all true original Darwinians held in common, and that was their rejection of creationism, their rejection of special creation. This was the flag around which they assembled and under which they marched.... The conviction that the diversity of the natural world was the result of natural processes and not the work of God was the idea that brought all the so-called Darwinians together in spite of their disagreements on other of Darwin's theories. (One Long Argument,1991, p. 99, Ernst Mayr (1904–2005), Professor of Zoology at Harvard University)

"We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door." ("Billions and Billions of Demons," Richard Lewontin (b. 1929), PhD Zoology, Alexander Agassiz Research Professor at Harvard University)

[Glenzig]

You have no idea who that guy is do you. If he was so opposed to 99.9% of the "scientific community", they sure never picked up on that themselves. Seems to me that he could be considered a major player in the scientific community, and especially among evolutionary scientists.

A leader in developing the mathematical basis of population genetics and evolutionary theory, he pioneered the application of techniques from molecular biology, such as gel electrophoresis, to questions of genetic variation and evolution.

In a pair of 1966 papers co-authored with J.L. Hubby in the journal Genetics,[3][4] Lewontin helped set the stage for the modern field of molecular evolution. In 1979 he and Stephen Jay Gould introduced the term "spandrel" into evolutionary theory. From 1973 to 1998, he held an endowed chair in zoology and biology at Harvard University, and since 2003 has been a research professor there.

He's actually still a professor.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by Lron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, how did your god will itself into being?

If a god can just always exist, so could have matter.

Sorry to humiliate you.

You have accessed in humiliating yourself with that flippant statement. Matter is non-eternal. The second law of thermodynamics proves that. Try again please.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Lron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"evolution proved or not doesn't change the fact of our existence as an existent being within a greater being"

This is not a "fact", far from it. It is you attempting to find philosophers that share your theistic delusions. Any crazy person can find another crazy person that was smart but had bad ideas, and adhere to a logical fallacy, an appeal to authority.

You are practicing Confirmation Bias.

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it's not though. the conclusions are immediately skewed into where you set out from in the notion exploration. people look at the same thing and see differences all the time, but it doesn't change the fact that what they're looking at is what it is. this is similar to the buddhist parable of the blind men and the elephant. dna itself and the pattern called evolution doesn't prove or disprove any divine existence.

it was apparent that you hadn't read the thread. you're late with that claim against them, and it's really funny that you assume i believe in the christian god.

Originally Posted by Rellapse40 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what do you expect from a dick sucking fgt

is that what your father said to you as he railed your tight little asshole when you were 6? i understand you want to make the thread about you being raped by your father, but that wouldn't change anything of the past.

[Ikonoclastia]

Unless somebody has some secret proof of what existed before the universe existed (big bang) or proof of the existence of a creator (which is not scientifically impossible) then you're all going to have to agree to disagree.

Science can't say for certain there is not a creator, nor can't science and a creator together not be possible and people who believe in a creator can't say for certain there is a god (because belief in god requires not knowing or faith).