petition to keep map software off red99

[Clark]

Originally Posted by no chewie dont [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why we cant have nice things

Lol

[no chewie dont]

bump, any GMs awake that give a shit? open your eyes

[August]

How would you propose banning a piece of software that only interacts with EQ via a logging (.txt) file?

Ignorance is bliss, eh?

[MC Epic]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How would you propose banning a piece of software that only interacts with EQ via a logging (.txt) file?

Ignorance is bliss, eh?

Not sure if you followed the whole thread up until now, but I tried to bring up the idea for COMMUNITY to police ourselves.

I'm not talking about running to a GM to ban everyone you think breaks the rules; we've had enough of that on this server for a lifetime, and in fact I don't want to see anyone get banned (we're trying to promote server growth, not the opposite).

I'm talking about community standing up and saying "NO" to the use of third-party programs which provide an unintended advantage (by circumventing the purposeful removal of maps from the eqgame client) .

The very small portion of the player-base who currently indulge in these programs would quit if their peers stood up against it. The problem is if the offender's peers are inclined to "look the other way", or join the bad behaviour. Thus follows the downward spiral of cheat or be cheated.

Rogean has already set down the law with third party programs.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651

It's up to us, the community, to uphold the spirit of the rules; to stand up to the rule-breakers and refuse to associate with them unless they play legit.

[August]

Originally Posted by MC Epic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure if you followed the whole thread up until now, but I tried to bring up the idea for COMMUNITY to police ourselves.

I'm not talking about running to a GM to ban everyone you think breaks the rules; we've had enough of that on this server for a lifetime, and in fact I don't want to see anyone get banned (we're trying to promote server growth, not the opposite).

I'm talking about community standing up and saying "NO" to the use of third-party programs which provide an unintended advantage (by circumventing the purposeful removal of maps from the eqgame client) .

The very small portion of the player-base who currently indulge in these programs would quit if their peers stood up against it. The problem is if the offender's peers are inclined to "look the other way", or join the bad behaviour. Thus follows the downward spiral of cheat or be cheated.

Rogean has already set down the law with third party programs.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651

It's up to us, the community, to uphold the spirit of the rules; to stand up to the rule-breakers and refuse to associate with them unless they play legit.

It's not providing any advantage undue to anyone else unless you consider using the wiki w/ it's maps and loc-grids as also unfair. This is literally just taking that map, and putting you on it instead of you looking at the numbers to figure it out.

Also, how would you enforce people using it / not using it? There is no way to tell.

3rd party programs typically interact with the program they are hacking either by injection or by man-in-the-middle. This does neither.

What you're suggesting is the equivalent of everyone refusing to use the wiki

[MC Epic]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not providing any advantage undue to anyone else unless you consider using the wiki w/ it's maps and loc-grids as also unfair. This is literally just taking that map, and putting you on it instead of you looking at the numbers to figure it out.

It's providing a huge advantage. You are artificially circumventing the need to learn how to navigate zones, learn how to use /loc with map.

It takes a GREAT amount of time to learn every zone.
It's also EASY to get lost in the chaos of PvP; especially if you don't know the zone.

In the heat of PvP, there is NO WAY you can /loc and navigate your way on a map.

HOWEVER, with a 3rd party cheat, you can just have a live updated map of the zone and your location, and NEVER get lost.

Just Yondered half a zone away? NO WORRIES just glance over at your other monitor for your EXACT location.....

This doesn't sound like an unfair advantage to you?

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, how would you enforce people using it / not using it? There is no way to tell.

I beg to differ. Already in this thread alone, Agatha has called out Jupe for developing this program. People talk, and let things slip. _All the time_.

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3rd party programs typically interact with the program they are hacking either by injection or by man-in-the-middle. This does neither.

It's not your typical cheat? So? That fact doesn't change that it circumvents a feature which was purposefully removed from the client. I've already detailed many ways to use logging parser plug-ins to re-create MQ2 functionality... are those not cheats, simply because they don't use the most common methods of doing so?

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you're suggesting is the equivalent of everyone refusing to use the wiki

This is a large leap; I did not infer any such similarity.

On Wiki, YOU have to figure out your location, figure out your direction, and plot your course. With a 3rd party mapping program, you don't have to do any such thing.

Further, if you get attacked and run off to get lost in Emerald Jungle with me hot on your tail, I WELCOME you to alt tab to Wiki with your /loc and plot your escape.

//edited a spelling mistake.

[MC Epic]

Guild PvP advantage:

Everyone uses this mapper app. Now, Officers call certain muster points, or target locations on the map... and what would otherwise take SKILL and KNOWLEDGE of a zone simply takes a second monitor.

Honestly, WHY do you think this type of program has been developed, except to obtain an artificial advantage in the "grey area" of /log parsing third party programs.

[Agatha]

running game parsers, mq, and 3rd party programs are as classic as u can get sadly to say.

[MC Epic]

Originally Posted by Agatha [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

running game parsers, mq, and 3rd party programs are as classic as u can get sadly to say.

Is that supposed to be a relevant argument?

[August]

So what you're saying is, you want the barrier to entry on red to be even greater because you want to enforce having a lexical knowledge of every zone to be competitive?

It would only be unfair if I wrote the program and used it only for myself.

Anything that is not modifying the client is not a hack. If you can create MQ2 functionality from a log, then I'm assuming it's not doing anything that would be considered cheating.