AC issues are starting to be really problematic.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You want us to revamp the system, change to a hard cap based system, and switch it back to soft cap sometime in velious, as he said it changed?

Originally Posted by Kahvok

Let me give a more full explanation of what happened, though. Here's how the AC formula used to work before the patch immediately preceding PoP

Also dude if you want to ban me on the forums or even in-game, I'm honestly OK with it. Really I spend too much time here [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Rogean]

I had to double check to see if Haynar even has ban privileges.. I wasn't sure. He does! Look out :P

Nobody is being banned here though.

[Sylexis]

I certainly get the "I want it to have that classic feel again" but to be honest that's just never going to happen. Even if they had the server copied exactly it wouldn't happen because you're different, you are older, you know things about the game that you didn't then. I will never again hear my twin brother screaming from the kitchen to get out of Kithicor because it was almost dark and looking at him in confusion.

All in all the Devs have been doing a great job of recreating a place where we can have moments of that old glory, but don't get yourself banned over something this simple.

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You want us to revamp the system, change to a hard cap based system, and switch it back to soft cap sometime in velious, as he said it changed?

I think you should be banned, and its time for you to go make your own server and code your own hard cap system. Putting u on ignore now.

Buh bye.

This thread is dead, not reading it anymore.

H

I think he was referring to what the developer post indicates:

A Hardcap system until late Velious then a switch to a softcap system with very weak melee-only (likely <10%) returns on AC. Hypothetically, the hardcap system is what should be in place now. Obviously, the issue is that we don't have the code - even if we have the code, we don't have the values.

I understand that it would be a waste of time to work on the Classic to Late Velious AC code just so that it can be thrown out for a different set of code in a couple months. The best bet is to just have everything working for the late Velious picture right out of release. This is what you seem to be doing, and I appreciate it.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Kahvok

Let me give a more full explanation of what happened, though. Here's how the AC formula used to work before the patch immediately preceding PoP:

The AC from your items was added up, but the value used for it was hard capped based on your level. This was the same for all classes. Once you had 289 raw AC from items (or 385 as a cloth class, since they get less effect from item AC), that was it. More AC from items wouldn't do anything.

After this, it added your class bonuses (including the monk bonus, which is equivalent to your level + 5 in raw item AC), defense skill bonus, agility bonus, and the AC from spell buffs.

Total AC at this point was capped again, this time based on class. In the Kunark-era code, this was a hard cap, but sometime during Velious it was changed to a soft cap for melee classes only. The return was fairly small, though.

I don't know how it can be any more clear. Regardless, this is my last head butt against this particular wall. I think you guys have done a great job building a free server to play, and if you aren't interested in fine tuning the mechanics to be classic as possible then so be it.

This thread just has me kinda depressed so I'm going to take a bit of time off; judging by my past history that will last about 24 hours [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Sylexis]

What you are trying to imply by quoting and putting into bold instead of saying flat out, is that the information you are providing says the changes to softcap didn't happen until just before PoP not just before Luclin, I.e. the second change would never be in P99s timeline, ergo a hardcap should be the end of the matter according to the information you found from that guys post.

Except now you've made the dev mad at you so you're going to go away for a bit until he forgets that he's mad and hopefully listens to you again later. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Sylexis

Except now you've made the dev mad at you so you're going to go away for a bit until he forgets that he's mad and hopefully listens to you again later. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, Haynar has been irritated at me for a long time. This particular thread was just the straw that broke the camel's back. So I'm done posting this kind of stuff; mostly it seems to just make everyone involved upset (including me!) and that's not my goal at all.

[Nirgon]

Sad to see High Priest and Splorf get to this point, and I do mean that. Loraen and Haynar are both good peeps beyond the measure of most here.

Winter is coming and its time to be men about it.

I've resolved past disputes with the Dawg and Wrench... man up and shake hands.

That said, its kind of way too early to be drawing conjectures about "too hard" before people are completely geared out.

The current system is pretty convincing to me, even if its not completely perfect (good f'ing luck with perfect). Imagine my surprise though when we get to huge hitter NPCs and we need some tweaking. That doesn't mean the current system is terrible but there's a lot of NPCs to make it work their way. We all know their formula/system isn't exactly Verant's code... but remember this is an EMULATED server. They will have to figure it out their own way and sounds like tweaking Velious era mobs (some across the board and some requiring specific fixes) is in order.

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had to double check to see if Haynar even has ban privileges.. I wasn't sure. He does! Look out :P

Nobody is being banned here though.

I wouldn't ban anyways. Not for a disagreement.

And we discussed the adding of hard caps, and it provides no real value added at this point. And might require a bunch of retuning.

I tweaked AC already. Moving on to other stuff.

H

p.s. I don't even know how to ban. Not on boards. Not in game. No reason to learn, because there are plenty of others who will do bannings if its appropriate.

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The current system is pretty convincing to me, even if its not completely perfect (good f'ing luck with perfect). Imagine my surprise though when we get to huge hitter NPCs and we need some tweaking. That doesn't mean the current system is terrible but there's a lot of NPCs to make it work their way. We all know their formula/system isn't exactly Verant's code... but remember this is an EMULATED server. They will have to figure it out their own way and sounds like tweaking Velious era mobs (some across the board and some requiring specific fixes) is in order.

With the current system, it allows some pretty simple tweaking of mobs.

We typically dont have to do big parses to see how it results. We can see hit percentage, how much max hit, min hit. Adjust AC, and see immediate results.

I did run some longer parses, to make sure what we are seeing in our summary debug info, is the same as it actually behaves. I ran about 15 hours of parses at different levels, different AC, vs various different mobs.

An unbelievable amount of effort is going into tuning the velious raid mobs right now. We are watching the guilds attempting/killing stuff very closely and making adjustments.

You want to help? Get on and raid in velious to help testing. Never ending debates on hard caps, just gonna tick people off. We can agree to disagree on what is best at this point. Even if its not totally classic. The dev posts from verant, were too vague in certain aspects. But enough detail that some improvements were possible.

Hard caps will exist at lower levels with the changes being added. Lower levels, as in below level 50.

H