Seriously, stop raping BB

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Free multiboxing was never allowed on live, and so it's perfectly accurate to ban it here too. Paid multiboxing did exist on live,

What is free multiboxing? IIRC; EQ didn't have a free trial for a long time.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure, lots of people liked exploring.

It's not about exploring and that wasn't my point. Its about expectation. People who have played the game on live know the exp slows down elsewhere. People who were playing the game for the first time didn't have any reason to expect that exp was far worse everywhere else. You're assuming they knew it was and so they would "logically" stay put. They don't.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Staying in the same exact place you are and doing the same quest you've been doing is not a ridiculous exploit. It doesn't require any special knoweldge (unlike say WC caps, OT hammers, or even just recharging items).

Knowledge that the fang exp is broken or ridiculously higher than elsewhere is itself special knowledge.

OT Hammers are an interesting point. Basically everyone on p99 has one because we know how to utilize puppet strings and item recharges. This knowledge was just not as ubiquitous on live, nor was the knowledge of some of the more profitable quests. It's not that people were dumb, it's just that information takes time to disperse, and we've had enough time since then for information to almost fully disperse.

But using your logic, I could argue that the puppet strings - OT Hammer trick is invalid because everyone on live should have had an OT Hammer.

You can apply this to anything p99 uses far more heavily than on live. I was just giving you a counterperspective to show you that your premises were assuming far too much to be a really valid argument. Whether or not gnoll fangs are actually broken (it may just be something else in the code, i.e. the scaling of the exp is broken, since the exp given around level 10-12 seems ordinary - it just doesn't drop enough per level) was secondary.

So, because only 1/3rd (maybe 1/4th post-Kunark) of all players start with a certain dungeon, nothing can be worng with that dungeon?

I Didn't argue that.

I've only been here about a year, but I'm pretty sure the population is at a historic high ... which would explain why an issue like this, which is only relevant when the zone gets crowded, would only come up now.

It's historic by only 100 or so. 900+ was very common even a few years ago, especially when BB was more packed when more people were lower level, as opposed to having buttloads of 60s.

However, it's just illogical to insist that the quest gave the exact same XP on live, but for no reason everyone stopped doing it at a certain level.

I'm not asserting that. I'm asserting that people would not have necessarily been mice who hit the food lever in their cage over and over and over if they thought the exp might be just as good elsewhere. I argued that it's *possible* that the exp was the same but folks would have no reason to assume that the exp there was better than anywhere else.

What's irrational is saying that just because some option is the best, obviously everyone will do that, especially when they aren't aware that option is the best.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Free multiboxing was never allowed on live, and so it's perfectly accurate to ban it here too.

Your wording is confusing here - "allowed" is improper. "Free multiboxing" was impossible because the accounts weren't free. Banning it is sort of a compromise because of that fact - not because it wasn't "allowed" on live.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Quineloe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is free multiboxing? IIRC; EQ didn't have a free trial for a long time.

Exactly; that's what I meant when I said free multiboxing wasn't allowed (free single-boxing wasn't allowed either; SOE wasn't a fan of anything free back then).

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Free multiboxing" was impossible because the accounts weren't free. Banning it is sort of a compromise because of that fact - not because it wasn't "allowed" on live.

Depends on how you look at it, I guess: my point was, there's nothing un-classic about the GM's choices re:boxing on this server (as was being asserted). In the classic era no one could create and run multiple free accounts at once. "Free multiboxing" never was and never will be classic, so there's nothing un-classic about the GMs decision to ban it. Paid multiboxing was classic, but P99 can't charge so it's impossible for them to re-reate that classic aspect.

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not about exploring and that wasn't my point. Its about expectation. People who have played the game on live know the exp slows down elsewhere. People who were playing the game for the first time didn't have any reason to expect that exp was far worse everywhere else. You're assuming they knew it was and so they would "logically" stay put. They don't.

I totally agree with you that that's true of lots of people. But a non-trivial amount of people would have noticed "hey I spent an hour in BB and got X blue bubbles from the fangs, then I spent an hour in WK and got Y blue bubbles from killing lions, and X > Y."

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But using your logic, I could argue that the puppet strings - OT Hammer trick is invalid because everyone on live should have had an OT Hammer.

There's a world of difference between:

A) taking an item that drops off a raid boss (back when relatively few people even got to face, let alone beat such bosses)
B) figuring out that you can use that item to circumvent a quest's faction requirements (on another continent)
C) knowing that one can abuse the buy/sell system to recharge that item
D) sharing that info with others, and not just keeping it a secret with your raid-boss-killing guildies

vs.

A) getting XP somewhere
B) seeing that you're still getting XP there
C) staying there

or:

A) getting XP somewhere
B) exploring for a bit ("let's see what this West Karana place is all about")
C) realizing "hey I was getting way better XP with those fangs than I am killing these lions".
D) returning to the place you got good XP

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not asserting that. I'm asserting that people would not have necessarily been mice who hit the food lever in their cage over and over and over if they thought the exp might be just as good elsewhere.

It's funny that you mention that: I specifically remember an article written back in the day explaining EQ players' behavior in terms of an experiment involving rats pushing levers. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I argued that it's *possible* that the exp was the same but folks would have no reason to assume that the exp there was better than anywhere else.

What's irrational is saying that just because some option is the best, obviously everyone will do that, especially when they aren't aware that option is the best.

As I've said, I'm not arguing "obviously everyone", I'm arguing obviously some non-trivial amount of people. When 1/3rd-1/4th of the server population passes through a dungeon, and there's a nothing secret about an XP gain there (the "secret tech" of getting that XP is just doing what you've already been doing), some players are going to notice and take advantage of that XP. Even if only 10% (of the 1/4th) thought "lions suck compared to gnoll fangs" when they left BB, and then came back to BB, there would have been enough level 20+s in Blackburrow to make us remember them.

But if you don't think so at this point, I'm certainly not going to convince you, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Given the research done by others in this thread, it's an entirely academic argument at this point anyway.

[kylok]

Some young novelists up in this thread.

[pharmakos]

so many gnolls died to other people whilst typing these posts =p

[Halfelfbard]

think its time to insanely gear a alt and goto black burrow...or bring my bard. *ponders*

[pharmakos]

i was able to solo lockdown a bunch of darkblues/evens mixed in with some greens/lightblues that agroed me running between the various spots. it didn't seem too overcrowded to me once i actually got in there and started killing.

i know blackburrow really well, though (qeynos born and raised, january 2000 =p)

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly; that's what I meant when I said free multiboxing wasn't allowed (free single-boxing wasn't allowed either; SOE wasn't a fan of anything free back then).



Depends on how you look at it, I guess: my point was, there's nothing un-classic about the GM's choices re:boxing on this server (as was being asserted). In the classic era no one could create and run multiple free accounts at once. "Free multiboxing" never was and never will be classic, so there's nothing un-classic about the GMs decision to ban it. Paid multiboxing was classic, but P99 can't charge so it's impossible for them to re-reate that classic aspect.




I totally agree with you that that's true of lots of people. But a non-trivial amount of people would have noticed "hey I spent an hour in BB and got X blue bubbles from the fangs, then I spent an hour in WK and got Y blue bubbles from killing lions, and X > Y."



There's a world of difference between:

A) taking an item that drops off a raid boss (back when relatively few people even got to face, let alone beat such bosses)
B) figuring out that you can use that item to circumvent a quest's faction requirements (on another continent)
C) knowing that one can abuse the buy/sell system to recharge that item
D) sharing that info with others, and not just keeping it a secret with your raid-boss-killing guildies

vs.

A) getting XP somewhere
B) seeing that you're still getting XP there
C) staying there

or:

A) getting XP somewhere
B) exploring for a bit ("let's see what this West Karana place is all about")
C) realizing "hey I was getting way better XP with those fangs than I am killing these lions".
D) returning to the place you got good XP




It's funny that you mention that: I specifically remember an article written back in the day explaining EQ players' behavior in terms of an experiment involving rats pushing levers. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]



As I've said, I'm not arguing "obviously everyone", I'm arguing obviously some non-trivial amount of people. When 1/3rd-1/4th of the server population passes through a dungeon, and there's a nothing secret about an XP gain there (the "secret tech" of getting that XP is just doing what you've already been doing), some players are going to notice and take advantage of that XP. Even if only 10% (of the 1/4th) thought "lions suck compared to gnoll fangs" when they left BB, and then came back to BB, there would have been enough level 20+s in Blackburrow to make us remember them.

But if you don't think so at this point, I'm certainly not going to convince you, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Given the research done by others in this thread, it's an entirely academic argument at this point anyway.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ahldagor]

^hehehehehe, yes!

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As was said in previous threads, if anyone will just take the time to find/submit evidence showing that gnoll fangs weren't this good for higher level characters on live, the devs could fix them and then we wouldn't have level 18s (or whatever) kicking it in a zone designed for level 7s.

But as long as people are lazy (like me) and don't do the research, this is just going to continue. You can't fault people for wanting good exp (even if it is an exploit of sorts), you can only fault the community for not working together to make P99 as classic as possible (and fixing this outlier quest).

You cant fault people using exploits? (even if they are 'of sorts') When did this become a thing? Wasnt there an exploit about making lots of money.. that people got b& for? because.. exploiting game mechanics (of sorts) is wrong?

He's right though, why don't these people just learn to group? I understand its difficult for most neckbeards to socialize, but damn..