WTB Manastone (65k)

[Daldolma]

Yup -- think Alawen nailed it. Only bit I'd add is that there are 2 issues that affect the price of an item. 1) utility and 2) rarity. Or in other words, demand and supply.

1 - as documented above, the manastone is bar-none the most useful item in the game through at least Kunark, and arguably Velious, for clerics, druids, and wizards. It literally means more to these characters than any other piece they could possibly have, with the exception of epics. It is also extremely useful for any other class that uses mana -- even a nice toy for necros -- but literally #1 for clerics/druids/wizards. And given the fact that clerics are the most irreplaceable and demanded class in game, druids are currently the most common class in game, and wizards become incredibly OP'd burst DPS in Kunark and Velious, I'd say there are plenty of people that will be demanding manastones. And to any of the 3 main classes of use, it is worth whatever it costs to attain one, which will continuously drive the price higher and higher as more plat gets amassed and manastones for sale become rarer.

2) Obviously, the manastone is incredibly rare. No new manastones can be attained. Though, as Alawen stated, there are roughly 300 on the server, I'd guesstimate that about 50 of those are irretrievably lost -- on banned accounts, or accounts of players that have (or will have) quit permanently by Kunark release. I'd guesstimate that another 150 of those will never see the market, because they're being stashed by players that intend to use them or just hold onto them for sentimental value/future alts/future investment. Most of the people on this server that have manastones really aren't scrapped for plat. That leaves about 100 for the server population that isn't part of the "old money" of P99. Now even of these, you're talking about plenty that will be bought and kept for mains. And this server is expanding daily. Within 6 months or so, I think it will be hard to find a manastone for sale at all, at any reasonable price. Eventually, they all hit players that need them for mains, and won't look to re-sell. Sooner or later, every manastone hits a dead end, because there's literally no improvement for it. It's not like they get recycled by the end-game players. Once they reach the right main, they are essentially off the market forever, or at least unless the person decides to re-roll. Supply is low already, and lowering every week.

Population increases. Demand increases. Supply decreases. The rest should be obvious.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Toony [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just out of curiosity how'd you determine that number?

I talked to about 20 people who had camped it about how long their camps took both before the camp was nerfed around the beginning of the year and afterwards, assumed that it was camped 24/7 whenever the server was up until the drop was removed and came up with low numbers and high numbers based on the rates those people agreed sounded within their experience. I never had the camp myself, although I sat there several times waiting until I decided that it would be easier to farm the platinum and buy one than to get screwed repeatedly.

Edit: I should add that some of the people I talked to had the camp for long periods of time, often 24 hours or more. Also, I think Daldolma's explanation is very good and hard to argue against.

Edit #2: Also, as a small note, paralleling the wizard epic, druids get increasingly efficient regeneration, both in terms of hit points per tick and mana cost per hit point over time.

[Slax]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I didn't already have mine

Well I guess that explains it. If you had it your way they'd be worth a million, too bad their not and never will be (actually some servers on live they may go for this much, but no one gives a shit about them). For a guy who played a druid for 8 years on live, they were pretty much worthless for my class for that whole duration afaic (I did not play in classic).

It takes 600 hp's away for the cost of mana just to port / gate back if you're counting clicks on the stone and all the "free mana" you get from it (not to mention the mana cost to keep perma chloro / regrowth going). It just isn't worth it unless you can use it on the spot while hunting / quading / grouping where you can instantly sit right back down letting life regen faster.

Now for use on classic? It's great, I love it. As for other classes and their usefulness? I can't say. I guess I could port a cleric out and keep healing him over and over and over so he can get a full bar then gate back, sure would be awesome for him, yea I bet. Or the Wizard epic clicks... But as for a Druid who you say it's so essential for? I don't think so.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Slax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well I guess that explains it. If you had it your way they'd be worth a million, too bad their not and never will be (actually some servers on live they may go for this much, but no one gives a shit about them). For a guy who played a druid for 8 years on live, they were pretty much worthless for my class for that whole duration afaic (I did not play in classic).

It takes 600 hp's away for the cost of mana just to port / gate back if you're counting clicks on the stone and all the "free mana" you get from it (not to mention the mana cost to keep perma chloro / regrowth going). It just isn't worth it unless you can use it on the spot while hunting / quading / grouping where you can instantly sit right back down letting life regen faster.

Now for use on classic? It's great, I love it. As for other classes and their usefulness? I can't say. I guess I could port a cleric out and keep healing him over and over and over so he can get a full bar then gate back, sure would be awesome for him, yea I bet. Or the Wizard epic clicks... But as for a Druid who you say it's so essential for? I don't think so.

There's no reason you'd have to heal the cleric. They can stone/CH to full in like 2-3 minutes max -- shorter if they have Donal's Arms or Donal's BP, which are mana-free 200hp heal and CH (though with long casting times) in Kunark. If you love it in classic, then there's no reason not to in Kunark. It just becomes more useful, because with expanded mana pools and increased hp regen/heals, it's going to be more and more of a pain to regenerate mana, while you have more and more hp to spare. The initial 200 mana pay-to-play hit is not that big a deal when you're regenning 20+ hp a tick with regrowth up. If you're medding from OOM, a manastone basically cuts your downtime into 1/2 to 1/3 of what it would be otherwise. It might be annoying to port/gate and do all the actual manastone/healing/regen-ing rather than passively medding, but it's well worth it in terms of actual utility.

[Slax]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

with expanded mana pools and increased hp regen/heals, it's going to be more and more of a pain to regenerate mana, while you have more and more hp to spare.

When I quit your average higher end druid had around 30k hp's, now they got around 40k. So with expanded mana / hp regeneration and way way bigger HP / mana pools, the manastone should be better than ever, right? Never ever ever never in all my time of playing a druid, with other high end druids, have I seen a druid port out to Karana or something to use a manastone then gate back. Now if I got to port a cleric out too, so he can make use of it? It triples the mana cost.

No way is it useful enough, not for a druid. Not to mention the danger of being in a deep dungeon and taking the chance of dying while bound down there, if you even can bind there.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Slax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I quit your average higher end druid had around 30k hp's, now they got around 40k. So with expanded mana / hp regeneration and way way bigger HP / mana pools, the manastone should be better than ever, right? Never ever ever never in all my time of playing a druid, with other high end druids, have I seen a druid port out to Karana or something to use a manastone then gate back. Now if I got to port a cleric out too, so he can make use of it? It triples the mana cost.

No way is it useful enough, not for a druid. Not to mention the danger of being in a deep dungeon and taking the chance of dying while bound down there, if you even can bind there.

No -- with expanded mana regeneration, the manastone becomes useless. What makes the manastone so awesome is the fact that max mana regen through Velious is garbage. There is no flowing thought or AAs or anything of the like. It takes for-the-fuck-ever to med from OOM to full. And when you're porting out clerics, it would typically be in raid or grouped situations, when druid mana means dick anyway. Clerics are all-important.

I don't know what eras you played in, but porting out for manastone usage is literally an every-day strategy in Kunark and Velious. Both for soloing and for raiding.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Slax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well I guess that explains it. If you had it your way they'd be worth a million, too bad their not and never will be (actually some servers on live they may go for this much, but no one gives a shit about them). For a guy who played a druid for 8 years on live, they were pretty much worthless for my class for that whole duration afaic (I did not play in classic).

It takes 600 hp's away for the cost of mana just to port / gate back if you're counting clicks on the stone and all the "free mana" you get from it (not to mention the mana cost to keep perma chloro / regrowth going). It just isn't worth it unless you can use it on the spot while hunting / quading / grouping where you can instantly sit right back down letting life regen faster.

Now for use on classic? It's great, I love it. As for other classes and their usefulness? I can't say. I guess I could port a cleric out and keep healing him over and over and over so he can get a full bar then gate back, sure would be awesome for him, yea I bet. Or the Wizard epic clicks... But as for a Druid who you say it's so essential for? I don't think so.

Apparently you think I am trying to talk up the price so I can sell mine. That would be incorrect. Perhaps you would like to ponder this item:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5526

This conversation will not affect the long-term value of manastones. Manastones are not about fashion but function. If you do not think it will be worthwhile for a druid leveling from 50 to 60 to port out, stone down and gate back, then... don't do it. I will be. So will the other druids winning the leveling race. Perhaps that is not important to you. That's not what this discussion is about.

Manastones are rare and useful. Demand will drive up the price. If you don't want one, don't buy one, but your irritation and implications will not lower the price.

[Slax]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No -- with expanded mana regeneration, the manastone becomes useless. What makes the manastone so awesome is the fact that max mana regen through Velious is garbage. There is no flowing thought or AAs or anything of the like. It takes for-the-fuck-ever to med from OOM to full. And when you're porting out clerics, it would typically be in raid or grouped situations, when druid mana means dick anyway. Clerics are all-important.

I don't know what eras you played in, but porting out for manastone usage is literally an every-day strategy in Kunark and Velious. Both for soloing and for raiding.

Druids / Wizards / Clerics do this now while raiding the planes? And even with expanded flowing thought, the manstone is still instant clicky! If it's so useful that still beat's any amount of flowing thought of mana you get per 3 second tic. And porting / gating around is even less of a drop in the bucket, right?

Seems to me with your reasoning the manastone should never ever be useless, no matter how much flowing thought you have. Once the nostalgia of actually owning a manastone wears off, most people will sell em at a loss to what they originally paid for it.

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't want one, don't buy one, but your irritation and implications will not lower the price.

I have one, and right now it's awesome. Come Kunark tho .. If people are paying 250k+? Bet your sweet ass mine will be the first up for sale. And you linked some circle click pants? I thought it was gonna be a link to the elder's BP which is a little closer than some skyshrine faction quest pants for an expansion that's who-knows how long away from now, 2 years? heh.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Slax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Druids / Wizards / Clerics do this now while raiding the planes? And even with expanded flowing thought, the manstone is still instant clicky! If it's so useful that still beat's any amount of flowing thought of mana you get per 3 second tic. And porting / gating around is even less of a drop in the bucket, right?

Seems to me with your reasoning the manastone should never ever be useless, no matter how much flowing thought you have. Once the nostalgia of actually owning a manastone wears off, most people will sell em at a loss to what they originally paid for it.

I think you're smart enough to work out the math for yourself and figure out why this argument is a non-sequitur. People aren't porting their clerics out of the planes after wipes because the guilds whose clerics have manastones typically don't wipe except in sky, where keys are a much greater concern than mana recovery.

[Slax]

These guilds don't typically wipe because these 10+ year old encounters are trivial and have been beaten to death hundreds of thousands of times by now. Which will also be the case in Kunark and Velious.