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[Fett]

Originally Posted by Vidar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Designers of EQ Disagree. A MUD is a MUD. EQ and UO and DAoC and Asherons call Etc etc etc are classified as MMO's.

If you have a link or such referencing a dev journal that shows what the EQ designers thought, I would like to see it. Personally, however the EQ designers word is not gospel.

MUD is an old term. The term MMO hadn't even come into use at the time MUD was being used. All we have to do is use a little logic in this siutation though. What makes a MMO comes down to two simple things.

1. A persistent world. Even if everyone logs off, the world continues to exists, and does not reset.
2. A large amount of concurrent users. This is of course a little more grey, because what is a "large amount"?

MUD's usually fall into category 1, as the worlds are usually persistent and do not reset. If Gemstone 4 (or other MUDs) can host hundreds, if not a thousand users at the same time I'd say it easily falls into category 2.

MMO is certainly a newer term than MUD, but there's no reason that older games don't meet the definition for the word.

[Vidar]

Originally Posted by Fett [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you have a link or such referencing a dev journal that shows what the EQ designers thought, I would like to see it. Personally, however the EQ designers word is not gospel.

MUD is an old term. The term MMO hadn't even come into use at the time MUD was being used. All we have to do is use a little logic in this siutation though. What makes a MMO comes down to two simple things.

1. A persistent world. Even if everyone logs off, the world continues to exists, and does not reset.
2. A large amount of concurrent users. This is of course a little more grey, because what is a "large amount"?

MUD's usually fall into category 1, as the worlds are usually persistent and do not reset. If Gemstone 4 (or other MUDs) can host hundreds, if not a thousand users at the same time I'd say it easily falls into category 2.

MMO is certainly a newer term than MUD, but there's no reason that older games don't meet the definition for the word.

Well, if a MUD is an MMO so is Diablo. No the world isn't persistent like in eq or UO but then again what happens when you log out and back in...its the same world with the same mobs. You kill a mob in eq it pops up again. The world refreshes itself in both games just in a different way.

And this is why i say MUDs are MUDs and MMO's are MMO's. If you start saying MUDs are mmos then Sims online becomes an MMO. And we havent even got into FPS and RTS games.

MMO by definition would encompass a lot more than just eq style games. But its a classification...like MUD, FPS, RTS, RPG, ARPG. Is it wrong? I would say yes. But as of right now we have no other term to classify EQ and WoW etc. so they stay MMO's while other games stay MUDs or RPGs etc.

[Fett]

Originally Posted by Vidar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, if a MUD is an MMO so is Diablo. No the world isn't persistent like in eq or UO but then again what happens when you log out and back in...its the same world with the same mobs. You kill a mob in eq it pops up again. The world refreshes itself in both games just in a different way.

Diablo is absolutely not a MMO because it does not meet the first item. The world has to be persistent for the term MMO to apply. Even if it was persistent, only a small amount of users can be connected at one time.

Originally Posted by Vidar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this is why i say MUDs are MUDs and MMO's are MMO's. If you start saying MUDs are mmos then Sims online becomes an MMO. And we haven't even got into FPS and RTS games.

Does the Sim's online have a persistent world that doesn't reset? Does it host a large amount of concurrent users? Then YES it is a MMO. You aren't understanding what the term means. MMO does not equal graphical online RPGs like EQ, it means a persistent world, with a large amount of concurrent users, period. The term came into use more recently than MUDs, which is why it applies to a larger cross section of games.

Originally Posted by Vidar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

MMO by definition would encompass a lot more than just eq style games. But its a classification...like MUD, FPS, RTS, RPG, ARPG. Is it wrong? I would say yes. But as of right now we have no other term to classify EQ and WoW etc. so they stay MMO's while other games stay MUDs or RPGs etc.

Now you are getting it. MMO doesn't apply to a specific genre of games. It's an umbrella term, that any genre can fall under if it follows the two rules I mentioned.

[Vidar]

Originally Posted by Fett [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Diablo is absolutely not a MMO because it does not meet the first item. The world has to be persistent for the term MMO to apply. Even if it was persistent, only a small amount of users can be connected at one time.



Does the Sim's online have a persistent world that doesn't reset? Does it host a large amount of concurrent users? Then YES it is a MMO. You aren't understanding what the term means. MMO does not equal graphical online RPGs like EQ, it means a persistent world, with a large amount of concurrent users, period. The term came into use more recently than MUDs, which is why it applies to a larger cross section of games.



Now you are getting it. MMO doesn't apply to a specific genre of games. It's an umbrella term, that any genre can fall under if it follows the two rules I mentioned.

You have completely missed the point. MUDs and EQ arent the same type of game. a MUD is a MUD. Eq is a.....? MMO is the only term we have for the type of game EQ is. People incorrectly use the term to classify eq. If you ask anyone what type of game EQ or WoW is they will say MMO. Regardless of how it SHOULD be used it IS used to classify games. Therefore using MMO to refer to a MUD is not right. It may be correct but its not right. And i dont give a flying rats ass if you want to call a MUD an MMO as long as we have a different term for EQ UO WoW etc.

[Fett]

Originally Posted by Vidar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have completely missed the point. MUDs and EQ arent the same type of game. a MUD is a MUD. Eq is a.....? MMO is the only term we have for the type of game EQ is. People incorrectly use the term to classify eq. If you ask anyone what type of game EQ or WoW is they will say MMO. Regardless of how it SHOULD be used it IS used to classify games. Therefore using MMO to refer to a MUD is not right. It may be correct but its not right. And i dont give a flying rats ass if you want to call a MUD an MMO as long as we have a different term for EQ UO WoW etc.

You're looking at this the wrong way. Let's try another example.

Apples, oranges, and pears, are all fruits. Apples are not oranges, and oranges are not pears, and pears are not apples, but they are still all fruit.

EQ is a graphical RPG, MUDs are text RPGs. Planetside is a FPS. They are all still MMOs. MMO is not a specific genre. FPS is a genre. RPG is a genre.

[Vidar]

Originally Posted by Fett [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're looking at this the wrong way. Let's try another example.

Apples, oranges, and pears, are all fruits. Apples are not oranges, and oranges are not pears, and pears are not apples, but they are still all fruit.

EQ is a graphical RPG, MUDs are text RPGs. Planetside is a FPS. They are all still MMOs.

What part of 'People use the term MMO to classify games like EQ and WoW' did you not get?

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Vidar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And we havent even got into FPS and RTS games.

The FPS series Planetside is also an MMO.