Question about xp penalty in groups

[drktmplr12]

I'm under the impression they are leveling together from 0 xp which is why I stated the cleric and sk would level a different rate. They should receive a 50/50 split of xp.. and continue to split down the middle since their total xp is equal. Different story otherwise.

Would be interesting to see exactly how experience is divided up in that case.

[Dangermouse]

Originally Posted by Sarajo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gaming is a social activity. I know this goes against the stereotype of poopsocking virgins in mom's basement, but all games with more than one player mean you're building bonds of trust by agreeing to a ruleset, building a vast social network, and becoming actual friends. Nowhere was a better environment for this than classic EverQuest. You needed friends to get anything done, and there was going to be downtime at low levels. If you ended up meeting up with the same people over and over in the under-level-10 dungeons, then stuck together through your 30s (the big test), your friendship was unstoppable and enduring. These became the people you'd follow to other MMOs because they were such good players who just "get it", something we don't see in the WoW generation.

The real game of EverQuest is what's going on in between fights. That's the part we most fondly remember. Sure you might remember a wipe or two, or an epic win when your skeleton pet proc'd ykesha when only the necro was left alive and killed the Emperor, but mostly the game was about sitting around getting to know each other and traveling to far off places together in search of fscking adventure that nothing else has ever compared to, or else we wouldn't be back on Project 1999 wondering just what's on the other side of that next hill.

THIS, RIGHT HERE

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by drktmplr12 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm under the impression they are leveling together from 0 xp which is why I stated the cleric and sk would level a different rate. They should receive a 50/50 split of xp.. and continue to split down the middle since their total xp is equal. Different story otherwise.

Would be interesting to see exactly how experience is divided up in that case.

I don't think you are right. The way xp is split means they will level up at the same rate (provided they gain xp from no other source, and no one loses xp).

The way I understood it: cleric needs around 100n xp to level, the sk needs around 168n. Once they kill 268n xp of mobs they will both ding. Each level the value of n will change, but the principle remains.

Is this right?

[Dangermouse]

I don't think it is right.

Because xp split in a group is based on the total xp of the characters. If the cleric and SK started together at 0 xp, they'd be getting a 50/50 split from each mob. So the cleric would level after they'd killed 200n, and the SK after 336n.

And the cleric dinging wouldn't change matters, as xp split is based on total xp, not level.

It does seem to be an interesting theoretical situation - if these two characters only ever grouped together, they'd gain xp at exactly the same rate - but the hybrid would level more slowly.

[drktmplr12]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The way xp is split means they will level up at the same rate (provided they gain xp from no other source, and no one loses xp).

Right. Just to be clear:

Exp. split is determined by total accumulated XP. Add the entire group's XP together, then slice the pie up according to how much each member has contributed to the total. Assuming the SK has 168n xp and the Cleric 100n xp (they are exactly the same level) they should continue to level at the same rate (relative to each other). The SK will be getting 62.6% of the pie, leaving the remaining 37.4% for the cleric. The pair (2.68n xp to level) is effectively taking 34% longer (2.68/2.00) than they would being a pair (2.00 xp to level) without a penalty killing merbs at the same rate.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The way I understood it: cleric needs around 100n xp to level, the sk needs around 168n. Once they kill 268n xp of mobs they will both ding. Each level the value of n will change, but the principle remains.

Is this right?

This is correct, but all under the assumption that they are exactly the same level.

If you upset that balance and the SK has, for example twice the xp total compared to the cleric (SK has 200n, cleric has 100n), The xp/kill distribution changes to 66.7% to the SK and 33.3% for the cleric. Once they gain 268n experience, the sk will have absorbed 178n (and leveled) and the cleric will have absorbed 89.2n (did not level)

Add 4 more clerics to the group, all with 100n xp. The SK has 168n xp. Everyone is exactly the same level. The total xp in the group is 668n. The group has total now the distribution looks like this:

Cleric A - 15%
Cleric B - 15%
Cleric C - 15%
Cleric D - 15%
Cleric E - 15%
SK - 25%

Make the SK a warrior with 90n xp. The total xp in the group is 590n:

Cleric A - 16.95%
Cleric B - 16.95%
Cleric C - 16.95%
Cleric D - 16.95%
Cleric E - 16.95%
Warrior - 15.25%

Comparing the situation for Cleric A:

Before: 15%
After: 16.95%
An 11.3% increase in exp rate.

This should prove that people do not level at the same rate unless they are exactly the same level. It also proves that if you add players to the group, the penalty will be split. There is a 11% increase in xp rate for Cleric A when switching from SK to Warrior, meaning hybrid penalty is not negligible for a full group of same level players. This is a a fact. But who would kick a SK for a warrior simply for a 11.3% xp bonus? I wouldn't.. but that's cause I'm not a selfish dick. How do you feel about 11.3% more xp when that warrior dies because he pulled extra mobs and now we have to rez him, wait for sickness, buff, etc when the SK could have just FD. Point being just cause it costs you more, doesn't mean you can ignore the benefits of grouping with hybrids.

edit: Added calculation for other extreme.

Assuming a full group of SKs (168n) and one Cleric (100n)...total xp of 940n:

SK A - 17.9%
SK B - 17.9%
SK C - 17.9%
SK D - 17.9%
SK E - 17.9%
Cleric - 10.64%

Not such a good deal for the cleric.

[Quineloe]

that would be remarkably easy to verify. What happens if a SK and a warrior grouped together at level 1 with no exp earned each.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's something I've only known about on P99. I dug around the forums and tried to find the link. This might be it:

http://stdlib.info/eqxpcalc/

but it doesn't work and doesn't seem to be archived

*edit* In the thread where I found the old link to the webhosted calculator, I also found a downloadable version, posted by Wisteso, here:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=95427

What do you need to make that work? It ran on my work computer, but not at home.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Quineloe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What do you need to make that work? It ran on my work computer, but not at home.

Try getting the most up to date version of Java runtime environment if you haven't already. Beyond that, I don't know. I also had trouble running it the first time I tried, back when that thread was made.

[baalzy]

drktmplr12,
Warriors get a 10% xp bonus (halfling warriors get even higher), so that throws your numbers slightly off.

Otherwise, great post.

[Dirtnap]

I don't know what you guys are smoking, you can obviously tell from the way exp works that group members will not level at the same rate.

The higher the gap in your levels, the more exp the higher level person takes. The exp penalty just makes them take more of the experience.

You can be grouped in HHK for example and have an SK tank taking 60% of the xp for himself, and he would out level everyone else because he gets 2-3% per kill while everyone else is getting less than 1%.

EDIT: This happened to me on my bard, and the exp was extremely slow for the entire group except the SK, who ended up leveling too high for out lowest member.