Elder Scrolls Online Preorder out, rage incoming

[Tenlaar]

Box price + sub = access to all content.

Not having access to all races unless you pay more than box price + sub = shady bullshit.

[Grimfan]

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Box price + sub = access to all content.

Not having access to all races unless you pay more than box price + sub = shady bullshit.

It's a collectors edition, it's a different box price but it's still a box price. There's nothing shady about it. It might put a bad taste in your mouth or whatever but it's 20$ for some extra goodies because you paid for a digital collectors edition. It's the same as getting a statue or whatever, it's all pretty meaningless. There are people who don't even care to be an imperial getting all whiny about it, it really doesn't matter in the long run. But you can call it shady if you want, it has nothing to do with the above scenario of buying a game only to have extra content being hidden behind a price tag after purchase. This is upfront and clear.

[Byrjun]

Originally Posted by Grimfan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a collectors edition, it's a different box price but it's still a box price. There's nothing shady about it. It might put a bad taste in your mouth or whatever but it's 20$ for some extra goodies because you paid for a digital collectors edition. It's the same as getting a statue or whatever, it's all pretty meaningless. There are people who don't even care to be an imperial getting all whiny about it, it really doesn't matter in the long run. But you can call it shady if you want, it has nothing to do with the above scenario of buying a game only to have extra content being hidden behind a price tag after purchase. This is upfront and clear.

It's basically $20 for an extra race, better mount, and exp bonus. That's essentially what we call a cash shop.

Box price + subscription fee + cash shop = shady fucking cashgrab. All these new WoW clones are the same - they care more about siphoning as much $ from you than they do about creating a quality game.

This is like a huge red flag. Anyone who felt like they made a quality game wouldn't tarnish it with these kinds of awful business practices.

This shit will be free to play within a year.

[Grimfan]

Originally Posted by Byrjun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's basically $20 for an extra race, better mount, and exp bonus. That's essentially what we call a cash shop.

Box price + subscription fee + cash shop = shady fucking cashgrab. All these new WoW clones are the same - they care more about siphoning as much $ from you than they do about creating a quality game.

This is like a huge red flag. Anyone who felt like they made a quality game wouldn't tarnish it with these kinds of awful business practices.

This shit will be free to play within a year.

This is a modern day digital collectors edition, if you haven't been playing MMO's since 2004, I understand, so I will lay it down for you with a few recent examples.

Rift: http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2011/0...tion-worth-it/

This is before it went Free to Play.

SWTOR: http://techland.time.com/2011/12/20/...-old-republic/

This is before it went FTP, the digital deluxe version had all the in game goodies without the cool stuff in the box.

TERA: http://store.steampowered.com/app/212753/?cc=nl

This shit is still available and was on day one. This is the same edition from before it went FTP.

The idea I'm trying to get across to you is that this is the normal thing now. Almost every game launches with a digital add-on package of mounts and such that you can buy. Most of these games did not start with a cash shop, in fact none of them did. Yes they found the FTP model more lucrative in the long run but that's just how things have evolved.

Mounts and vanity pets are in almost every digital collectors edition for an MMO out there. This time it included a race, but it's no more shady than any of the other games offering incentives for paying a little extra for a slightly easier experience.

Believe what you want however.

[Uteunayr]

There's a reason why all of those games are meh.

Free-to-Play Microtransaction came around as a means for new MMOs to be created without having a barrier to entry, as a way for new MMOs to survive with WoW out.

However, since then, it has changed the core of MMOs. It isn't so much about what you earn, and what you work for, because now you can pay for extra advantages so that your same amount of work nets more result, and exclusive items.

Most people see this, and go "Well, alright. So long as it is cosmetic." (as in TF2, DOTA 2, etc.), but when you go beyond that into things that have a direct effect on game play, rather than just cosmetics, it makes it so the game isn't giving back what you put in in terms of effort, but effort + real life money. That's an issue.

[Grimfan]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's a reason why all of those games are meh.

Free-to-Play Microtransaction came around as a means for new MMOs to be created without having a barrier to entry, as a way for new MMOs to survive with WoW out.

However, since then, it has changed the core of MMOs. It isn't so much about what you earn, and what you work for, because now you can pay for extra advantages so that your same amount of work nets more result, and exclusive items.

Most people see this, and go "Well, alright. So long as it is cosmetic.", but when you go beyond that into things like a race, and items that are specific advantages over those without them based on money, it makes the game less about getting out of it what you put in in effort, and more about how much you pay in.

I don't believe that the reason that the above games I mentioned are meh is because they offered a collectors edition of the game, digital or otherwise. I do believe that they had some very flawed design principles and I also believe that ESO will probably be the last MMO if its kind. However, I don't believe it is a bad game and I don't think their decision to hide the 10th race behind the Imperial edition is really a big deal. Yeah it's a shitty move and they probably should not have done that, but to also complain about things like a mount and whatever else is really just rolling into full retard at this point and people are just looking for shit to hate. Games give you some small advantage these days for paying extra, even single player games.

I'm not saying that I enjoy that direction but it is something that is normal and a company shouldn't really be hated on for doing it. The rings are earnable in game (for the extra experience bonus when leveling with a friend) the mount is not implied to be any faster than any other mount you just save some money, and the other perks are probably pretty small. The ability to craft imperial armor was already in the last beta if you found the book, and if you have no interest in being Imperial race then it's probably not even that important to you to get the pack. In no way does this even imply that they are headed towards a cash shop either, Rift lasted a LONG time without moving to that model and it's a model that they decided to move to with their entire company and it had very little to do with the success of the game itself.

Bottom line for me though, this isn't shady. There's nothing in the shadows about this. It's all up front. Take it or leave it. Use a new word if you have to but there's nothing underhanded about the collectors edition.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Grimfan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not saying that I enjoy that direction but it is something that is normal and a company shouldn't really be hated on for doing it. The rings are earnable in game (for the extra experience bonus when leveling with a friend) the mount is not implied to be any faster than any other mount you just save some money, and the other perks are probably pretty small. The ability to craft imperial armor was already in the last beta if you found the book, and if you have no interest in being Imperial race then it's probably not even that important to you to get the pack. In no way does this even imply that they are headed towards a cash shop either, Rift lasted a LONG time without moving to that model and it's a model that they decided to move to with their entire company and it had very little to do with the success of the game itself.

Why? Why shouldn't we hate them for doing it? Bioware deserved the hate they got for Mass Effect 3. The moment we start saying what you are, saying it is normal so we shouldn't hate on people for it, that's consent for them to do it. No, raise bad press, make a fuss, scream and shout over it, or else the market will continue to devolve.

I have not paid for a game since Square Enix shut down Chrono Ressurrection, as they have shown absolutely nothing but contempt for any player based interaction with their legal IP. Sure, I myself will not be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but I am showing through my abstention in paying them that their policies are unacceptable. If you just pawn off the responsibility to others to not buy something you're against, you're equally as responsible for the state of the gaming market as it is.

[Byrjun]

Originally Posted by Grimfan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a modern day digital collectors edition, if you haven't been playing MMO's since 2004, I understand, so I will lay it down for you with a few recent examples.

Rift: http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2011/0...tion-worth-it/

This is before it went Free to Play.

SWTOR: http://techland.time.com/2011/12/20/...-old-republic/

This is before it went FTP, the digital deluxe version had all the in game goodies without the cool stuff in the box.

TERA: http://store.steampowered.com/app/212753/?cc=nl

This shit is still available and was on day one. This is the same edition from before it went FTP.

The idea I'm trying to get across to you is that this is the normal thing now. Almost every game launches with a digital add-on package of mounts and such that you can buy. Most of these games did not start with a cash shop, in fact none of them did. Yes they found the FTP model more lucrative in the long run but that's just how things have evolved.

And all those games were complete shit. They found the FTP model "more lucrative" because their shitty cashgrab MMOs failed and they didn't have a playerbase to get subscription $ through anymore.

Thanks for proving my point though.

Can TSO even last through the summer before crashing and burning and going FTP?

[Psionide]

[QUOTE=Byrjun;1298063]

they care more about siphoning as much $ from you than they do about creating a quality game.

QUOTE]

This is pretty much the business practice of every buisness out there these days. This is like when I buy a ticket that is supposed to grant me entrance into a venue but then also have to pay a "facility fee." Back in the day companies and salespeople used to care about a relationship with their consumers; today it's all about sucking that last possibly dollar they can get no matter what kind of bad taste they leave in the consumers mouth.

[Grimfan]

Originally Posted by Psionide [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they care more about siphoning as much $ from you than they do about creating a quality game.

QUOTE]

This is pretty much the business practice of every buisness out there these days. This is like when I buy a ticket that is supposed to grant me entrance into a venue but then also have to pay a "facility fee." Back in the day companies and salespeople used to care about a relationship with their consumers; today it's all about sucking that last possibly dollar they can get no matter what kind of bad taste they leave in the consumers mouth.

Nope, not the same thing. This is like giving you an option to have a ticket into a venue that gives you a seat with a partial view with the option of upgrading for 20$ to a front row seat with an unobstructed view. What you just described is a hidden surcharge, there is nothing hidden about this. I really do wish people would figure out what they are angry about.