Class C loses mobs on every repop?

[Geofizzle]

<Perennial EQ Losers without GMs Help>

Leader: Yendor
Officers: Chest, Bisch, Xosire

[Elements]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If my numbers are wrong, prove it.

Variance has been nerfed to +/-8hrs, and extended variance removed. Therefore every 7-day spawn will spawn on average every 7 days, and every 3-day spawn will spawn 2.33 times per 7-days (on average). There are nine (9) 7-day spawns in the 1:1:1 plan (Naggy, Vox, Inny, CT, Tal, Gore, Sev, Fay, VS), three (3) d-day spawns (Trak, Draco, Maestro), and six (6) VP 7-day spawns (Druushk, Hoshkar, Nexona, Phara Dar, Silverwing, Xygoz) that are Class C only. Counting up the number of spawns per week, that's 22 spawns per week. The rotated spawns account for 16 of those 22, the last 6 are C-only. of the rotated spawns, 33% are R, 33% FFA, and 33% are C, 5.33 spawns per group. Class C guilds will get 5.33+6 spawns for THEMSELVES, untouchable by R unless they want to go class C as well. That is 51.5% of the spawns, dedicated to class C. Class R gets 5.33 spawns for themselves, which is 24.2% of the spawns. R and C (and anyone else) gets to fight over the other 24.2% of the spawns.

Class C, which makes up less than 20% of the server's population (TMO, according to Rogean, is less than 3% of the population, 20% is a massive overestimation of the hardcore guilds' numbers) will kill 50+% of the raid mobs on this server, and class R will kill 24-50% (assuming C guilds don't compete for FFA spawns, also a massive overestimation). Class R makes up more than 80% of the server's population (as Class R by definition is: 'everyone not in class C'), yet we will see at MOST roughly the same amount of mobs, likely closer to half as many, and we have to split that amongst more people.

You are completely neglecting repops which is what this thread is all about. With 3-4 repops per month your numbers go out the window.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are completely neglecting repops which is what this thread is all about. With 3-4 repops per month your numbers go out the window.

He either forgot what the thread is about or he isn't reading it.

[goshozal]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

prove it.

Strongly considering sig

[Pheer]

Originally Posted by goshozal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Strongly considering sig

prove that youre considering it

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are completely neglecting repops which is what this thread is all about. With 3-4 repops per month your numbers go out the window.

Repops are 18 mobs, 12 outside VP get rotated (4 for each category). There are three Class C guilds. Since each class C guild can kill two targets outside VP, unless C guilds voluntarily disregards their mobs for 6hrs, your category will kill a guaranteed 10 out of 18 mobs, 55%. Since that will still leave 2 mobs in the Class C bag (3x2-4=2), you can kill up to 12 out of 18 mobs, or 66.7% (2 of the FFA mobs). Class R is reserved 22.2% of the mobs (4/18), and can kill up to 8 (4R + 4FFA) mobs of the 18 respawned, for 44.4%. There is no situation where class R category (as a whole) can kill more mobs than the class C category. Every time I've done the math, its worked out to a minimum of 50-55% of the mobs for class C, and ~25% of the mobs for class R, with the rest FFA between C, R, and PUGs. For normal spawns above, and repops in this post.

[Babayaaga]

At some point there will be more guilds in class C and it will be a bit more competitive than it is now. I can see what you're saying, but by having things "left up" for a little while guarantees other up and coming guilds in both tiers opportunities at attempts. We've got some room for growth once again... it's a pretty amazing solution.

TBH... this is a really elegant system considering what it took to get here. That raid.php instant auto-updating page is genius. I don't care if it isn't classic... on some servers certainly, it should have been!

[baalzy]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Repops are 18 mobs, 12 outside VP get rotated (4 for each category). There are three Class C guilds. Since each class C guild can kill two targets outside VP, unless C guilds voluntarily disregards their mobs for 6hrs, your category will kill a guaranteed 10 out of 18 mobs, 55%. Since that will still leave 2 mobs in the Class C bag (3x2-4=2), you can kill up to 12 out of 18 mobs, or 66.7% (2 of the FFA mobs). Class R is reserved 22.2% of the mobs (4/18), and can kill up to 8 (4R + 4FFA) mobs of the 18 respawned, for 44.4%. There is no situation where class R category (as a whole) can kill more mobs than the class C category. Every time I've done the math, its worked out to a minimum of 50-55% of the mobs for class C, and ~25% of the mobs for class R, with the rest FFA between C, R, and PUGs. For normal spawns above, and repops in this post.

The problem they're complaining about is if 2 of the class cs each kill 2 FFA mobs, then there are 4 Class C mobs left and only 1 guild available to kill them.

If FFA included CT, Inny, VS and Trak all in 1 repop and ClassCs got all 4 of them, then only 2 out of the 4 remaining ClassC mobs will get killed (for now, once another guild joins it becomes moot as there will be enough class Cs to kill all 4 ffa and all 4 class c mobs). This means those 2 mobs will eventually go FFA and get killed by ClassR guilds.

Assuming it's any other combination for FFA mobs and it becomes less likely since they're going to be targeting whichever ones of those 4 they can touch first and then anything still up after that.

I can see their point and I would support removing the bag limit from Class C labeled mobs on repop (still leave the limit at 2 for FFA and Class R guilds).

[LizardNecro]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem they're complaining about is if 2 of the class cs each kill 2 FFA mobs, then there are 4 Class C mobs left and only 1 guild available to kill them.

Thus an incentive for a big class C guild to break into smaller, more competitive guilds.

[Daldaen]

Eh I see their point, however if the FFA mobs are so much more tasty pixel wise than the Class C mobs, that is their choice to favor Trak/VS over Fay/Gore. I'm not so sure removing the bag limit on class C mobs is the answer.

Perhaps make it such that you can kill any number of Class C mobs (0-4) but you cannot touch FFA mobs if you've already killed 2 Class C. As opposed to the current situation where you could kill the first 2 Class C to spawn and have to forego the next 2 Class C and all 4 FFA

It doesn't satisfy their "get every single Inny/CT/VS/Trak possible to sell more epic MQs" goal which all of their proposals tried to afford them. However it does allow for more competition among the competition mobs.