Re: Raid Situation

[Babayaaga]

Originally Posted by sanforce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Completely agree.

When competition is thrown out, everyone has a different opinion on how the raid scene should be managed. The better your guild is, the more competition it will want. The worse your guild is, the more instance/rotated that your guild will want. Everyone else falls somewhere in between.

This post illustrates the problem perfectly.

There is this belief system associated with what determines a guild to be "worthy" of having access to content. It is the deeds that truly grant this access which are up for debate.

Example:

Contested Mob Spawns. 3 guilds know immediately through their own respective means.

Guild 1 sends out messages to guildmates who begin camping in an Alt army.

Guild 2 sends out messages to guildmates who begin deploying immediately to the scene.

Guild 3 sends out messages to guildmates, some of whom have Alts camped at the spawn point while others begin deploying to the scene.

*** 4 minutes pass ***

All three forces are buffed and rush to engage the mob. Guild 1 engages the contested boss mob with DA and begins to kite it around.

Guild 2 gathers other local mobs (of substantial firepower) and kites them to Guild 1's engage point training the entire force, killing 75% of their raid force, as well as the puller kiter.

Guild 3 picks up the Contested Mob and pulls it to their camp, gets boss down to 20% when suddenly a massive train is dumped on their raid force by Guild 1's puller.

Guild 2 sweeps in and finishes the kill and loots the spoils.

*** The End of Anecdote ***

This is what the contested raid scene was like before 3 weeks ago. This situation is an example of what nearly every contested raid went like when multiple guilds tried to go after the same target. These events would unfold in less than 10 minutes.

The people who are calling this situation "fair", are generally the same people who would pull some of the dirtier tactics. Competition is one thing, but this is another. I always thought Xegony was the Ghetto of all cess-pool servers on classic but P99 really takes the cake when it comes to how very low some people would stoop to make sure they got pixels instead of someone else, particularly ones they didn't "need".

Being "the best" means something different to each person playing here. To some, it means doing whatever it takes to screw someone else over so they have more. To others, it means being known for being an all around good guy who cares about the overall health of the community.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Byrjun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Question of the night. The plan we ended up getting was better than the one that BDA wanted, because it featured repops in addition to normal spawn, which was a mechanic we thought wouldn't be considered. Tier 2 didn't end up with less mobs, they potentially got more. 12 pages and I still haven't heard a reason why the repop plan was bad.

I suspect the staff is having a heart-to-heart right now and will let us know what happened once they talk. Just my guess.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It became abundantly clear two days ago after the Sirken-announced ruleset that BDA was more concerned with taking from Tier1 than they were with providing for Tier2.

"We just got a sick deal, but why didn't you punish them more?!"

Oh, watch, I can do it too... I'll even add post links!

Just as it became abundantly clear two days ago after the Sirken-announced ruleset that TMO/FE was more concerned with raid loot coming into the game at a faster rate via 3-4 repops a month, de-valuing the items they might be selling for various reasons and by various methods...

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=25

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...&postcount=108

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...&postcount=120

Spin works both ways.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You were not offered repops that T1 wasn't allowed to touch at all. If you think t2 would have gotten a guaranteed 8 T1 spawns a month on FFA repops you're crazy. Not to mention 3-4 repops were not on the table either, 2 were.

let me repeat myself

part of the rogean plan ensured that targets retained their tier assignment through repops. So all of the normal mobs that spawn, plus all of the new mobs coming from repops, and they'd still get split down the middle. More mobs overall and a fair split for everyone.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

let me repeat myself

part of the rogean plan ensured that targets retained their tier assignment through repops. So all of the normal mobs that spawn, plus all of the new mobs coming from repops, and they'd still get split down the middle. More mobs overall and a fair split for everyone.

Except t1 said no to that. So why are we still talking about it? There are like 10 other plans that were rejected, that we don't discuss anymore. Add that piece of shit plan to the list please.

[Obrae]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogeans plan was 50/50 for all but vp right?
So, t2 gets, per month, roughly 2 x ct, vs, inny, dolj, sev, tal, gore, fay, vox, nag, and 4x trak. So total of 24 mobs.

Under the plan we though we had, tier 2 gets basically the exact same amount. And they still get the opp to compete on FFA repop (guaranteed another 4 or 5), and also the ability to compete during second half of month.

Accordingly, why the heck are we upset about this ?
It's a win win.

I suspect it has most to do with the fact that they want tier 1 to get less more than they want to get more.

Dolic

What they really wanted was mobs to be up WHEN they have people on and decide they feel like raiding instead of farming for plat. They never wanted to have to compete even against themselves. Fact is with 24 mobs a month i wouldnt be surprised to see many of these go FFA because no one gathers to kill. Raiders have migrated to raiding guilds long ago.

Its easy to shout and be loud about injustice but i doubt they really want to go raid a mob after it pops. They act like they are forced to step aside but the reality is they don't even show up.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, watch, I can do it too... I'll even add post links!

Just as it became abundantly clear two days ago after the Sirken-announced ruleset that TMO/FE was more concerned with raid loot coming into the game at a faster rate via 3-4 repops a month, de-valuing the items they might be selling for various reasons and by various methods...

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=25

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...&postcount=108

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...&postcount=120

Spin works both ways.

I wish we'd stop getting lumped in this imaginary T1 group who sells epic MQs. I bet our guild bank has less money than most players on this server. We barely sell anything. Peridots and raid materials are mostly covered by individual members.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except t1 said no to that. So why are we still talking about it? There are like 10 other plans that were rejected, that we don't discuss anymore. Add that piece of shit plan to the list please.

right, and there's all kinds of stuff that t2 rejected as well

[Splorf22]

Chest, seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? Under this arrangement we have about 150% as many mobs as before . . . and after we all get a little practice dealing with the repops, I think the casual guilds will get half of them easily. Let's do a little math shall we:

• 2 repops for casual guilds, score 100%
• 2 FFA repops, score 50% for the casual guilds
• 2 repops worth of variance spawns, score 0 for the casual guilds

That's a net 50% score easily, and tbh I think with more practice and some good organization we'd score more than 50% as a group even on FFA repops.

The only thing I don't like about Sirken's proposal is how VP is locked out. I don't think anyone should be forced to dive in the sewage known as 'competition' on this server just to see the end of the game. But other than that its simply fantastic.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Chest, seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? Under this arrangement we have about 150% as many mobs as before . . . and after we all get a little practice dealing with the repops, I think the casual guilds will get half of them easily. Let's do a little math shall we:

• 2 repops for casual guilds, score 100%
• 2 FFA repops, score 50% for the casual guilds
• 2 repops worth of variance spawns, score 0 for the casual guilds

That's a net 50% score easily, and tbh I think with more practice and some good organization we'd score more than 50% as a group even on FFA repops.

The only thing I don't like about Sirken's proposal is how VP is locked out. I don't think anyone should be forced to dive in the sewage known as 'competition' on this server just to see the end of the game. But other than that its simply fantastic.

come to bda vent and i'll math you bro