Sirken's proposal

[Fael]

Deajay,

Why should the staff abandon Classic Everquest raiding, recreate a crazy ass system, for 3 months worth of raiding?

The whole point of this is to create a system where tier one guilds don't "monopolize" content.

Opening up a large percentage of raid mobs to exclusively be had by casual tier 2 guilds for 1/3 of the month is a fantastic opportunity for you guys. You guys are just too greedy and shortsighted to see it.

If you can't accept it, things should just go back to the way things were, and then bind TMO/FE and any other raid guild to fulfill the obligations of the reasonable proposals that we have already put forth.

Im sorry, you only had bargaining power because it was graciously given to you by the staff, and to the extent that you misread or misinterpreted Rogean's words.

If you were smart, and looking ahead, you would realize that you would have a strong argument to extend this sort of agreement into velious where you would have free access for 1/3 of the month to go after all the tier 2 targets in velious. But no, you can't look ahead, and are stuck in squabling over 3 months of rotated mobs, of which you will personally only see a small percentage of.

Dolic

[Exmo]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

read sirken's proposal since you are posting on this topic.

Did. I was just commenting on the fact that it was posted as if the status quo wasn't an issue, since 80% of the raids happen like that.

Wasn't trying to derail, just saying that logging in the camped force isn't causing problems is backwards. It IS the problem (Among others).

I actually Like Mez's modified version of this, but I can see why FE/TMO are less receptive.

[Rhambuk]

Fael

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Velious
Speaking of velious, I know you guys have been asking for an update. I plan to make a more accurate announcement at some point but Velious development is proceeding well and we may be opening Beta within a few months. Stay tuned.

I only bring this up because you've mentioned it twice now, velious release in 3 months.
not to be a dick just to let ya know )

[Fael]

Fair enough. Beta release is velious release as far as im concerned [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dolic

[Rhambuk]

lol it will be glorious without a doubt!

[falkun]

Dolic,
I am under the impression the raid agreement will be carried over into Velious. Why would you pour a shitty foundation now to put the house of Velious upon when you can lay a good foundation for a sturdy Velious? Or would you rather CSR raid suspends everyone again at Velious release so we can hash this out all over again? Now I'll concede you and I have different definitions of a "good foundation", but I hope we can both agree we'd only like to do it once.

Flippie,
Where did I discuss your proposal (especially in that quote)? You state focusing on the past is not good for negotiating. I'm saying tier2 is not here for a "pound of flesh." As Loraen said in the Raid forums, hardcores want 100% FFA, casuals want 100% rotation. A true compromise is the Rogean proposal at 50/50, two separate little playgrounds. The Divinity proposal, especially with excluded VP, is stacked in favor of the hardcores, but still with two little playgrounds.

Everything I'm seeing from the hardcore camp entails "competition." The casuals do not want competition, especially at the level historically defined by TMO. As a casual, I feel like every raid proposal from hardcores is attempting to justify their ideal of competition by forcing it on the casuals. I feel suppression of the casuals is what hardcores want, it provides the justification for the inordinate amount of time spent in the game. Deru is right, it is work, but its not "Classic" work, it was artificially created by Project1999-specific mechanics.

[Droog007]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey Chest buddy. Raiding actually isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Those incidents all happen but are few and far between. This is for you and everyone else who choose not to put in effort to kill raid mobs, but keep referencing all this "toxic" shit that happens and how you're morally above all that.

You know how shit usually goes? Batphone goes out, we log into VS pit, TMO has FTE and kill the mob, we go park at the next target and log off. I'm not going to search for it, but this morning I read a post from one of the GMs, that 80% of engages go perfectly smoothly and don't involve any of this drama.

I know this is literally the only argument that you (and many many others) have for why you want to do nothing, and still get free shots at mobs. But it's been debunked.

Yes, I imagine things go very smoothly once you've spent several months pulling the wings off the butterflies.

Most of us checked out of your stupid "competition" after a very brief exposure to it.

What did you win, really? Now you're finding out what baggage it came with.

[Mezzmur]

You didn't, I'm directing you back to the proposal as that's the basis for the thread. I see tons of rhetoric and discussion about the past and how being good was good but being bad was bad. But nothing about how you feel about this proposal. It supports PNP, splits mobs up fairly.

[Fael]

Deajay,

Im not sure how rogean's statement of intent: to let casuals have items that tier 1 guilds "don't absolutely need" fit into velious raiding. If youre suggesting that FE/TMO/IB's consent to casual proposals contemplates that casuals will get 50% of king tormax spawns on day 1, then I think we can all agree you are asking quite a bit more than we ever thought.

Dolic

[mattkwi]

Originally Posted by mattkwi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed. So you make further provisions. Two or three hours if you killed target last, 1 or two hour wait if you killed that target the time before that. That leaves every third spawn of every target uncontested for at least an hour or two. If variance was removed this would be huge. Add in random repops and the server gains even more
.

Again, the problem was the fighting at the top. It wasn't ever about smaller guilds not getting targets. So staggered engages solves this problem. If GMs want the players to work it out, then let them. Naturally, just like on the real servers, guilds who could and wanted to kill the content, controlled the content. If another guild wanted access they took it by force, alliance, or politics. Not Verant or Sony handing it to them. If the GMs want to control the out come then do just that. Decide on how you want it and implement it. If you want the players to work it out, then let it work itself out. Taken has taken many targets whenever they wanted them because they wanted them. It is possible.

There's no concessions to be made. No one owns anything except the GMs. But TMO, FE, IB are the only ones being asked to give up something they control at the moment. Fine, mandate they give up some targets, but as the majority contenders, let them decided amongst them how to do this. Smaller guilds can't claim
To give concessions when they have nothing to lose. Form and alliance and take a larger piece of the pie, then you can barter.

Only 5 members of the U.N. Have veto power. Not every country in the UN has the same power. A small guild with little influence of raiding should have little influence in the divvying of targets.

Staggered engages. And guilds being responsible for their own future And if you truly want the friendliness and joy brought from the first week of the 'two hour' rule week then kill variance and add repops along with these two staggered engages.


Or if you don't want the guilds to work things out naturally then just decide for them. It's done on other matters and can be done here. Not the right way to go IMO, but saying let the players choose but trying to control the out come
By forcing compromise is doing more harm than good to guild relations.

Or Implement GM approved Sirken play nice raid policy and call it a day.