OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[JayN]

Originally Posted by baramur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seems like alot are not grasping this, by the way i read their comments.
Its says for 3 weeks tmo/ib/fe will not engage inny, sev, maestro, gore, tal. This opens up around 23 mobs they will no longer engage at all. Then 1 week a month they will not engage ct, trak, vs. This is a huve concession of mobs, also there is nothing that says you cant challenge the A guilds, it just says the A guilds cannot challenge you.

smart guy who gets it, this for some reason isnt even close to acceptable for some.

I feel instances will only please some people and letting them hold everyone hostage is hardly fair; Staff needs to come in and really take a stand ON WHAT EXACTLY THEY WANT PLEASE

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by baramur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seems like alot are not grasping this, by the way i read their comments.
Its says for 3 weeks tmo/ib/fe will not engage inny, sev, maestro, gore, tal. This opens up around 23 mobs they will no longer engage at all. Then 1 week a month they will not engage ct, trak, vs. This is a huve concession of mobs, also there is nothing that says you cant challenge the A guilds, it just says the A guilds cannot challenge you.

Seems what we need is a point system where lord bob guild gets the same cap on kills as TMO. Because that's fair. Anything less is insulting.

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Turp_SmokinPurp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So..
After all the talk on the point system I checked it out an read threw 12 pages of comments. The thing is dragon socialism 101. You obviously want a full blown rotation so just come out an ask for it Catherin.
I see the hardcore giving compromises, adding inny, adding it a VP kill , not attempt. Talks of adding a VP dragon to the freebie list every month.
But they haven't made 1 thing appealing to the hardcore over on that casual "point" system thread. There is no competition with a point system wtf are you talking about? you have guilds on there that have never even attempted to raid before and they get the same points as the hardcore. There is 0 competition in that and 0 compromise from you guys. Seems to me You just want to have free mobs for your guild , and that has been the whole problem from the start . Everyone thats on this point system idea should just push for a GM rotation. Because you will never get a hardcore raider to agree to some shit system like that.

No hardcore is saying yes to that point system or even trying to work with it.
At least some of the casuals are liking this idea, and trying to work with it.Getting some things changed an added in. An hopefully it will attract you at some point.
Or something else will be redrafted an bring the 2 ideas together in a more Taken friendly fashion (Xasten plz get on it lol)
Than i seen this...


TL DR If you do not /bow to my plans I will keep everyone raid suspended.
Well pretty sure this will go no where. No hardcore is going to compromise to some socialist dragon plan. Come up with something better or work this proposal more to your liking. But the point system is complete shit at the moment and ripe for abuse.

don't take what I say out of context and you will also see that I did not agree with the point system as it was currently set in stone, but a variation of it. I think its a great start to a real solution. nice try though scream socialism more

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=132779

while the point values are not set in stone. I highly support the overall idea and those that are not happy with this proposal should really give it a look.

reposted for you since you apparently missed this part

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said it wasn't possible. It's just more difficult to keep track of a 100 alts than people are making it sound. If people want to go with a point system, that's fine with me. Just make sure you've got a plan in place for determining shenanigans.

It is difficult to keep track of 100 alts, if those 100 alts are all shady people. However, each guild here has great stand up people who are willing to follow the rules (more of them than the shady players). Xasten is a prime example of this and there are many more in TMO. There are tons in IB, FE, Taken, BDA, and so on. I'd highly doubt it that a single guild could faction off their alts into a new guild (considering it takes GMs to make a guild) without some non-cheaters realizing and stepping forward.

Why would they step forward? Equal punishment for the new and the existing guild. Is that harsh? Yes. Is that something new? No, see TMO's latest punishment.

Either the good players will shed the cheaters or the cheaters will risk another Froovy/Internode situation and cause not 1, but 2 guilds to be banned.

In Uthgaard's name I do pray, let these punishments be swift and severe!

[Visual]

I was actually enjoying the competitive raiding landscape between the top 4 guilds before the whole froovy fiasco. You guys were actually putting up a good fight.

Looks like we will be seeing far less of that on the horizon and that is a god damn shame. Was fun while it lasted.

[Durka]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said it wasn't possible. It's just more difficult to keep track of a 100 alts than people are making it sound. If people want to go with a point system, that's fine with me. Just make sure you've got a plan in place for determining shenanigans.

Its the alts thats the issue as Derubael has pointed out. I am not at all focused on mains, I am sure most top guilds will keep their core primary players. Alts will disappear from those guild tags and magically appear in other guilds.

How can this be tracked / managed?

I do still fully support the point system - I just dont see an easy manageable way to track legitimacy of new guilds or existing small guilds getting an influx.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 2 hour rule would work if killing a mob only kills that guilds potential for it's next spawn. That was my understanding of it. There are lower tier guilds that are going to fail on Trak, etc. for 2+ hours, or not even notice it is up because they are not willing to put in the work of the "Category A" guilds.

Which is also something that should not be undermined here. Guilds like IB/FE/TMO get to where they are at ultimately through time spent working towards it. An agreement needs to be simple, and can not cater to people not willing to work hard towards reaching these desired raid targets. Free loot is not the answer and would be worse than a rotation based on the raid design of this game.

The main complaints presented from the casual community are 1) Uber Guild dominance & 2) the need to track.

The 2 hour rule does very little to prevent the tracking issue. If Sev pops at 6 AM, the casuals will not have a meaningful shot at the mob.

Secondly, preventing one guild from killing for 2 hours enables the second guild a free kill. If you prevent the last two killers from competing for 2 hours, the third strong guild is essentially defaulted the kill. It's simple economics. If that third (or fourth, or fifth) guild is given an artificial advantage towards a scarce resource, they will capitalize on it. Again, those in power at any given time dominate preventing meaningful participation from those are are not, and cannot be, hardcore.

[CodyF86]

Originally Posted by goshozal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone should have to name their alts like Snacks and I do.

Aaradin
Aaradone Gated (haha)
Aarawubbin

Only way to roll. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aaradin
The A-Team

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Turp_SmokinPurp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So..
After all the talk on the point system I checked it out an read threw 12 pages of comments. The thing is dragon socialism 101. You obviously want a full blown rotation so just come out an ask for it Catherin.
I see the hardcore giving compromises, adding inny, adding it a VP kill , not attempt. Talks of adding a VP dragon to the freebie list every month.
But they haven't made 1 thing appealing to the hardcore over on that casual "point" system thread. There is no competition with a point system wtf are you talking about? you have guilds on there that have never even attempted to raid before and they get the same points as the hardcore. There is 0 competition in that and 0 compromise from you guys. Seems to me You just want to have free mobs for your guild , and that has been the whole problem from the start . Everyone thats on this point system idea should just push for a GM rotation. Because you will never get a hardcore raider to agree to some shit system like that.

No hardcore is saying yes to that point system or even trying to work with it.
At least some of the casuals are liking this idea, and trying to work with it.Getting some things changed an added in. An hopefully it will attract you at some point.
Or something else will be redrafted an bring the 2 ideas together in a more Taken friendly fashion (Xasten plz get on it lol)
Than i seen this...


TL DR If you do not /bow to my plans I will keep everyone raid suspended.
Well pretty sure this will go no where. No hardcore is going to compromise to some socialist dragon plan. Come up with something better or work this proposal more to your liking. But the point system is complete shit at the moment and ripe for abuse.

Every proposal that you don't agree with is socialism. Clearly you didn't actually read the points proposal, maybe he should have put pictures in so you can actually comprehend it. There is competition.

[DrKvothe]

Design a system where FE/IB and TMO get 25% or less (not 67% or more) of all non-VP targets and it might get some attention. There's absolutely no reason after 2 years of domination FE/IB and TMO should get VP and any more non-VP raid targets than anyone else. Cap all guilds at 1 kill of each target per month. Hell, it's better than this shit proposal.