OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[JayN]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep spouting this.

Let them split if they want legitimately. If they are skilled and will put in the time to be a successful smaller guild, fine.

If they throw their alts into another guild to circumvent the situation, they will be found out. No guild wants to harbor cheaters and face serious repercussions.

It's much easier than you think as long as the punishment is severe. The more severe the punishment, the less likely that it will ever bare fruit.

I'm surprised you're so narrow sighted.

They'd have to take a hands on approach then, the one they were so detrimentally against.

they need to get involved

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Same thing is accomplished with a point system, and better. you still get your "competition" and the little guys still have a chance, whether you consider us a Rank A, B, or those you don't even consider worthy to have a rank to even be represented.

Seen enough. im against this IM in favor of a points system.

So..
After all the talk on the point system I checked it out an read threw 12 pages of comments. The thing is dragon socialism 101. You obviously want a full blown rotation so just come out an ask for it Catherin.
I see the hardcore giving compromises, adding inny, adding it a VP kill , not attempt. Talks of adding a VP dragon to the freebie list every month.
But they haven't made 1 thing appealing to the hardcore over on that casual "point" system thread. There is no competition with a point system wtf are you talking about? you have guilds on there that have never even attempted to raid before and they get the same points as the hardcore. There is 0 competition in that and 0 compromise from you guys. Seems to me You just want to have free mobs for your guild , and that has been the whole problem from the start . Everyone thats on this point system idea should just push for a GM rotation. Because you will never get a hardcore raider to agree to some shit system like that.

No hardcore is saying yes to that point system or even trying to work with it.
At least some of the casuals are liking this idea, and trying to work with it.Getting some things changed an added in. An hopefully it will attract you at some point.
Or something else will be redrafted an bring the 2 ideas together in a more Taken friendly fashion (Xasten plz get on it lol)
Than i seen this...

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll make this clear too.

Im more than willing to be raid suspended for a week, or a month, or longer, if that's what its going to take for a proper agreement for everyone. This doesn't hurt me. This doesn't hurt the smaller guilds. Taken looses the respectable number of targets we get but it also gives us a break from this toxicity in the promise of something better in the future for all of us.

Not sure if I can say that about everyone in the top Guilds though so you had better think about that.

TL DR If you do not /bow to my plans I will keep everyone raid suspended.
Well pretty sure this will go no where. No hardcore is going to compromise to some socialist dragon plan. Come up with something better or work this proposal more to your liking. But the point system is complete shit at the moment and ripe for abuse.

[Hailto]

Originally Posted by Thulack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol cause there would be "more" kills for any guild that got moved up to group a.

You think taken normally gets 40 percent of the mobs then? News to me.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep spouting this.

Let them split if they want legitimately. If they are skilled and will put in the time to be a successful smaller guild, fine.

If they throw their alts into another guild to circumvent the situation, they will be found out. No guild wants to harbor cheaters and face serious repercussions.

It's much easier than you think as long as the punishment is severe. The more severe the punishment, the less likely that it will ever bare fruit.

I'm surprised you're so narrow sighted.

I never said it wasn't possible. It's just more difficult to keep track of a 100 alts than people are making it sound. If people want to go with a point system, that's fine with me. Just make sure you've got a plan in place for determining shenanigans.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by JayN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They'd have to take a hands on approach then, the one they were so detrimentally against.

they need to get involved

Only when it comes to guilds breaking raiding/server rules, which is what they are supposed to do any how. The only difference is the players are making rules to which they are supposed to follow.

Is literally everyone here dense as a brick wall?

[baramur]

Seems like alot are not grasping this, by the way i read their comments.
Its says for 3 weeks tmo/ib/fe will not engage inny, sev, maestro, gore, tal. This opens up around 23 mobs they will no longer engage at all. Then 1 week a month they will not engage ct, trak, vs. This is a huve concession of mobs, also there is nothing that says you cant challenge the A guilds, it just says the A guilds cannot challenge you.

[goshozal]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said it wasn't possible. It's just more difficult to keep track of a 100 alts than people are making it sound. If people want to go with a point system, that's fine with me. Just make sure you've got a plan in place for determining shenanigans.

Everyone should have to name their alts like Snacks and I do.

How long will that take you to enforce, Deru? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[jaybone]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what if a current guild legitimately splits for whatever reason? Maybe half the guild doesn't hold with the other half's ideals anymore and wants out...?

Do they not get to raid? How do you tell if its legitimate?

What if TMO sticks all of it's alts in bob guild? the FBI? Knights? Evil Empire? how will you know whats a legitimate guild and what's not?

Can't just say there's 'plenty of ways' to track the legitimacy of a new guild. It's a lot harder than you think.

Again, if you all agree on a points system, no problem. But you'd better have a way to deal with this situation not if, but when, it arises.

Easiest way to solve this derubael is to wipe the server and give a true classic experience with expansion and patches released on actual timelines. 3 years kunark has ruined this server. I understand there are a handful of people working on velious and these things take a lot of time and no one can fault you guys for that.

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 2 hour rule does not help casuals. It still requires tracking, it creates a defacto rotation, and the majority of the kills will still go to the guilds that go the extra mile.

No matter what, the 2 hour rule creates a system of rotation. Last killer must wait 2 hours? The 2nd guild gets it. Last 2 killers must wait 2 hours, the 3rd gets it. So on and so on. It becomes a rotation between the organizations that can field a raid at all hours.

The 2 hour rule would work if killing a mob only kills that guilds potential for it's next spawn. That was my understanding of it. There are lower tier guilds that are going to fail on Trak, etc. for 2+ hours, or not even notice it is up because they are not willing to put in the work of the "Category A" guilds.

Which is also something that should not be undermined here. Guilds like IB/FE/TMO get to where they are at ultimately through time spent working towards it. An agreement needs to be simple, and can not cater to people not willing to work hard towards reaching these desired raid targets. Free loot is not the answer and would be worse than a rotation based on the raid design of this game.

[Happyfeet]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep spouting this.

Let them split if they want legitimately. If they are skilled and will put in the time to be a successful smaller guild, fine.

If they throw their alts into another guild to circumvent the situation, they will be found out. No guild wants to harbor cheaters and face serious repercussions.

It's much easier than you think as long as the punishment is severe. The more severe the punishment, the less likely that it will ever bare fruit.

I'm surprised you're so narrow sighted.

So if myself and 15 others leave TMO and join Europa, I guarantee we'll get targets. What is to stop this? We're not cheating, you can't prove we didn't leave for a legit reason. We'll take our loots, add it in with TMO's, done deal. Shit even just VP key all the Europa people and kill some Xygoz/SW while we're at it.

Deru is 100% right, I think that point shit is TERRIBLE. Both yinikren and Beruwhatever's posts are just absolute trash.