OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Durka]

One thing about the point / bag system that needs to be considered (just because my tinfoil hat started making funny sounds)

Guilds may take their 2nd, 3rd and 4th alts and make diff guilds to take advantage of this system. Not that everyone will do it right away, but it sure would evolve that way.

/tinfoil hat off

[Ciroco]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the contrary, the effort and dedication of the hardcore has been respected for over two years now.

As has been asked several times: What more can you possibly need? If it's a matter of newer members needing gear, start trading some of that plat/equip/mq's from the guild bank and make deals for what you need off the non-VP stuff with the casuals that have been shut out because of the extremes a small percentage of the playerbase has taken the raid scene over the last two years.

So all we need is an agreement that says "stop farming crap you don't need"?

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Scoresby [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except you're still raiding the other 25% of the time on the top tier content for the expansion. You already earn what you work for by having access to VP/Trak/VS.

It's fair to bring up that many deals leave VP out of the uncontested time frames. For the most part, it's a moot point as few guilds have the keys to slay a dragon that are not already hard core. VP can perhaps be fairly addressed through any number of ways such as altering the 75/25 split to something like 70/30 or 67/33, or just making PD the only "non-hands off dragon."

For the time being, it's relatively minor and easily addressed. My major contention is the lack of consideration for each side's viewpoint. The hardcores should be rewarded just as the casuals should be respected.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Ciroco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So all we need is an agreement that says "stop farming crap you don't need"?

Well, there's a bag limit/points system proposal that forces guilds to make choices along those lines... it's a start.

[Yinikren]

Catherin, I love you. You are linking me my own thread. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And the hardcores do not want a system that allocates an equal amount of kills to the groups that are less willing to spend more effort.

The hardcores need to respect that casuals have a reasonable expectation to participate in the end game. The casuals need to respect the dedication and effort of the hardcores.

One week of uncontested raiding is roughly a quarter of spawns in a month. Many are suggesting a 50/50 division (week on week off). This affords casuals the chance to participate, but it does NOTHING to respect the effort and dedication of the hardcore. We have already established that a 100/0 split of hardcore-casual has the opposite problem.

A 75/25 split respects casuals and affords them a meaningful chance to participate in the end game, and it respects the dedication and effort of the hardcore.

75/25 is a joke. 3-6 guilds are left fighting to divy up 25% of the raid spawns?

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One week of uncontested raiding is roughly a quarter of spawns in a month. B]

no. it has already been said variance isn't going anywhere.

1 week of uncontested raiding is roughly an eighth of the spawns in a month. and that is not even considering extended variances. every mob would have to spawn in less than 7 days for it to be a quarter.

Also, its uncontested "priority targets" so lets make that even smaller than the eighth

Everyone is ignoring this like it will get swept under the rug. I wont let it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This proposal as it stands isn't going to fly

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We're quickly approaching a point where there is no "zone of agreement."

Too many people are going to pull in different directions and there will soon be no solution that is acceptable to all parties. We're looking at another UNCLOS or the 1979 Moon Treaty.

I realize you guys made this proposal in good faith, and its not unreasonable (although the title OFFICIAL PROPOSAL' is ridiculous. It should be FE/TMO OFFICIAL PROPOSAL).

I just don't think anyone is going to agree to it. BDA and Taken don't like it because a) they can't poopsock, but you guys can still log your alt armies b) if they catch a whiff of VP they get slotted into category A for 3 months and. The A-Team, Azure Guard, and Europa don't like it because we still get to batphone and track against BDA/Taken and all of the 24 hour responsiveness and watching-the-linoleum-peel tracking nonsense that that implies.

[Lron]

This is a bad idea...you guys are going to regret making a rotation.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My major contention is the lack of consideration for each side's viewpoint. The hardcores should be rewarded just as the casuals should be respected.

It's actually more nuanced than that: Is your viewpoint that the hardcores' near-monopolization of endgame content for the last two years should be completely ignored for the purposes of this agreement? Yes or no? Because I will tell you that it IS being factored in on the casual viewpoint, and that is part of the gap in consideration.